Professor Paddle: An Individual Sport?

The recent death on the Upper Blackwater has stirred again a debate on who should be making the decisions to run certain rapids: The paddler him/herself ? Or the group?

Instinctively, that answer seems to be a simple one: Kayaking is an individual sport, therefore the choice is the individual's alone.

This is the prevailing sentiment of kayaking culture. And it is certainly valid. Kayaking challenging whitewater--whether it be Class II or Class V+--relies on both physical skill and mental clarity. Few variables erode that mental clarity more easily than the expressed doubt of a more skilled paddler. And since kayaking is often about progress, we tend to reject the artificial influences--other people's opinions--that might impinge that progress by saying: "It's an individual sport, man. Not a team sport."

But this masks the central identity of whitewater kayaking. And it embodies exactly what we despise about the current economic system. Extreme kayaking socializes the risk and privatizes the reward. I'm not sure I have heard of a kayaker testing the limits of his skill while kayaking alone. Usually when kayakers run rapids or a rivers that push their skill levels, they make sure they are surrounded by a group of more competent paddlers. And I have never heard of a kayaker, who flipped, and swam through a rapid, plead with his fellow kayakers to abandon the pursuit of his sinking kayak and disappearing paddle because: "It's an individual sport, man. Just let it go! Just let me go!"

I have, however, witnessed many kayakers--who had no part in the decision--chase the boat, paddle or body through blind rapids without any support. Tell me now: Is kayaking an individual sport, then?

The truth is: Kayaking is an individual sport only when we want it to be. It's an individual sport when we talk about the rewards from first descents and the glory of sticking impossible lines.

But the moment that line falls apart, the decision made by the individual is shouldered by the group. That is the group's instinct.

Ultimately, the decision to run a rapid belongs to the individual. That is the way it is. And that is the way it should be.

But I also believe the decision is sometimes based on incomplete data. That is: A kayaker decides whether or not to run a rapid based soley on whether he thinks he can stick his line. This is a Plan A decision (success) that ignores the possibility of a Plan B (rescue). Perhaps, when a kayaker is scouting the landmark rapid of his kayaking life, he should consider his ability to stick his line, yes. But he should also anticipate the danger into which he will be thrusting his teammates should his Plan A fail.

Either that, or he should wear a disclaimer on his PFD that says something like this: "Kayaking is an individual sport. And as an individual, who is accountable for his decision, I abhor you to not attempt the rescue of me or my gear. The glory would have been mine, alone. And so too are the consequences."

In my time kayaking, I have never thought of it as an individual sport, mostly because the vast majority of the time I'm with other paddlers working towards a common goal: getting to the bottom of the run while having safe and fun lines. The only times I've felt like it's an individual sport is when the people I paddle with either fail to wait for me or other members of the group at the bottom of rapids, during those time you feel very alone.

As far as we as individuals taking on the risk of running rapids, I'd say that is a fallacy we tell ourselves to feel better about risk-taking. Whether it's me or my buddy running a scary drop, we all are involved in the rescue if it comes to that. If someone gets hurt in a committing canyon we're all involved in hiking out to get help/assist an injured friend/get out because the water is too high etc. I've have done my damnedest to talk people out of running a drop before because there would be no way to set effective safety, a call that is hard to make but ultimately one that we all could be forced to make if we look at whitewater as a team sport.

Even when whitewater feels like an individual sport it's still not. When I watch my friend run a difficult rapid clean that I walked, it still makes me smile. We share in a collective fun factor. This is readily apparent in just about every whitewater porno out there, whether it's Tao, Ben Stookesbury, Pat Keller, or Rob McKibben running a big drop, when they come up clean you'll invariably hear the "support team" whooping it up with the individual. The support team doesn't get to be in the money shot, but without them the money shot would be like a tree that falls in the woods. Does anybody hear it? Does anybody care?

To say that the group is responsible for everything that happens on the river is too simplistic, but there is a certain amount of group accountability that goes into putting on the river with multiple people. That is why we need to look at each incident with a critical eye that brings all the information together to be analysed.

To call this sport an individual sport would be denial of all the positive human experience you had while on the water. It would deny all the friendships you made because of whitewater, it would make that time you watched your friend get beat down in that hole not be painful to see, if kayaking was an individual sport I would certainly have never fallen in love with it.

This is a debate that ultimately will never be resolved, but next time you're on the river and are about to take a risk we all should look and ask what is plan B and is that feasible within the constraints the river has dealt us.

On the subject of Group Decision making .

It is the right of every individual to assess and decide what level of risk is acceptable to them. IE if you are the only one running some big drop and you want someone to set safety out on a sketchy log, each person in the group has the right to say, no I ain't going out there and if you proceed only do it knowing that if you get hurt, loose gear etc... you have been well forewarned about the lack of safety and aid that can be offered.

Now that being said some paddlers are still going to fire it up. Within that sub group of fire upers some are going to style it while others might have a higher ratio of crash and burn. Still the choice to fire it up is not the groups... it is the individuals, however people are going to stop boating with someone if they don't listen to the groups input and they are certainly going to get cut off if they keep crashing and burning.

I can name a few paddlers that would keep biting off more than they could chew, jumping on runs and then have to get bailed out, long hikes and all this after repeated attempts from many folks to talk them out of it. Finally after a while I started avoiding trips they were on. That is the natural process. On the other hand I know some paddlers that would do the same thing but style it, they would keep stepping it up despite people in the group saying don't do it, that is over your head. Some people stopped boating with them because they were pushing the envelope past what they cared to be involved with, but by and large most people don't make that I am not boating with you decision until something goes wrong and it involves people in a way they are upset with, or perhaps hurt by.

I would say the merit of a good boater is not just in the ability to descend a difficult drop but rather to walk around that drop they truly want to descend knowing when it is best for the group. Paddlers like this are the individuals that bring strength and unity to their group. In short the attitude of a paddler can truly allow his skill to show more clearly attracting opportunities and relationships that are by far more valuable than any single feat or accomplishment.

On the subject of Individual or Group Sport.

Simply put Whitewater kayaking may perhaps be the most complex joining of the two perspectives. For in few other sports does the ability and skill of the individual alone provide the individuals outcome, while at the same time in few other sports does the support and aid of the group determine the end result of the trip.

I have run rapids that I would never have considered because of the cheer and encouragement of my friends, at times by them probing first and at others by simple encouragement. I have progressed in the sport in large by the enjoyment I have found while paddling with those same friends. Echoing Jed, those that consider this sport completely an individual sport, may be missing the very finest aspects of the river experience.

I've never looked at kayaking as an individual sport. If anything, it seems like its almost a group activity by definition.

I agree with everything that people have said about where responsibility ultimately lies in this sport, and that it's up to each paddler to do what they can to make the right calls for themselves, and accept the consequences when those choices turn out to be bad.

The only thing that I want to add with regards to personal responsibility, is that it goes both ways. When you head down the river with a group of people, you are making a conscious choice to do so and you need to accept responsibility for that. If you are about to embark on a demanding or committing run and think that someone is going to be a risk to themselves or the group then that's the time to voice your concerns and decide whether or not you want to associate yourself with the trip, not after it's gone bad. Once it has gone bad, the only defensible ethic is to take responsibility for your decision to paddle with the group and do what you can to make it less bad.

That can range from full-tilt rescues to just calling someone into an eddy, having a sincere chat about the situation, and chaperoning them through the more challenging rapids. Or giving them beta. Or having them walk. Whatever. If nothing else, even a quick chat after the run is over.

"How'd you feel about how things went today,"

"I was super gripped, sorry about the swims."

"No problem - we've all been rescued, but I just wanted you to know that this run gets a lot more serious when the flow picks up another ~500 cfs, but when the flows drop another 1000 cfs the drops become a lot more manageable and there's way more time to recover if things go wrong. One thing you might consider doing is logging a few runs on River X at medium flows before you runs this river again at these levels.

Ultimately it's your call, but if you do decide to run this river again soon and you're paddling with new folks, maybe just let them know how this run went so before everyone puts on so that they'll be there for you, and that they know what they're getting into as well."

It's also worth noting that no one has perfect information, everyone has bad days, and there's no guarantee that the person who needs rescuing wont' be you.

I also want to add that while I don't think I've pushed it to the same degree that Brian has, I did have a phase when I was pushing myself back East, and I never would have been able to run all of the rivers I did without people that either didn't know me at all or only knew me second or third-hand taking a chance. A few times that involved them checking in and asking what level I was comfortable paddling, what rivers/creeks I'd been on, if I'd scouted, etc. Once that was over and they put on with me I never had any doubt that they'd have been all in for a rescue if I needed it.

Great topic, Christian!! And, good posts, my friends.

Dude, this sport is SO NOT and individual sport. At all. Now my battery is dying, so luckily you'll be spared a jP Classic rant on this subject (for now). But let's sum it up thus:

If its such an individual sport, why is "never paddle alone" such a mantra? Why aren't there more solo paddlers? And as Christian pointed out in his post, many progress by following others down the stream that represents new challenges for them. ACA safety codes (all of which I have violated at some point, but Dad said never break more than one law at a time and I rarely break more than two at any given moment- but all this after having actually learned the rules before breaking them) state 'never boat alone'. Tell the late great Hendri Coetze that- incidently after logging so many solo miles he was with others when he got Crocked.

Not an individual sport, folks. Not unless you paddle solo. Running shuttle? Traditionally requires TWO automobiles. Can you rescue yourself with your own throwbag? No, using it to lower in and out of canyons doesn't count in this context, smartass!

Individual decisions get made that are supported, and sometimes against the wishes of, The Group. So yes, as James says, that complex interplay between individual and collective experience is a dynamic, shifting line.

What I am coming to terms with is the fact that individuals continually drag me into territory I've explored but would rather not revisit, because they are fresher to the sport, and for them its new "lessons" to be learned. Often at my expense. I learned many of these lessons more than a decade ago. But my input is rarely valued as a "group member", despite three fu*kin decades of experience paddling healthy doses of whitewater.

I'm leaning more and more toward solo paddling.

Edited by jP - 11 Jan 2012 at 5:55pm

First off, I'd like to say that I agree with what has been stated already. Group dynamics and team work are a huge part of kayaking. Sometimes though, I think too much. My statements are going to differ a bit and I don't intend to stir the pot with my thoughts or feelings. However, I'd like to offer a little different perspective.

When it comes right down to it, kayaking is as individual of a sport as you can get. Christian, Dave and I discussed this on a drive home from Robe the other day. Bottom line is, you are the only individual in control of your kayak, your fitness/fatigue level, emotions, ego, mind, desire to run a rapid or walk it, scout a rapid or run it blind, run a rapid with bad directions or confusing directions, put on a certain run at a certain water level, pull your skirt or keep fighting, swim hard to shore after a pull or just float, hike out or continue on, you get the point. You also determine to what degree you will extend yourself to your buddies or people you paddle with once something does go wrong.

I think all too often people have a false sense of security because of the ‘group’ or ‘safety’ that will be there for them. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying the group or rescue is a bad thing, but kayakers really need to assess their skills better and their likelihood of success at a particular rapid.

An example: Say you are on Robe with a group of four. You are having a semi-off day, you know it, and you are approaching Catcher’s Mitt. Do you walk it or run it? What are your considerations? Think for a second, what if I were alone? I’m not suggesting anyone go solo the run, but consider it. I think your choice whether to walk or run might be different if nobody is there to clean up your party. Do you need someone else in your group to tell you that you are having an off day and should walk it? Should you take your chances and run it? And maybe swim and have your crew clean it up? All of these are the individuals mental battle/choices. We can face these any given day on any given run. Your crew doesn’t know how you are feeling, only you do. I think this is where we can learn the individual side of the sport better. We need to assess our capabilities where we are right now. We shouldn’t be putting other people in the situation to decide for us.

I’m not going to make a decision for anyone unless it is blatantly obvious they are out of place or in danger. I have no problem with someone going big and running Landslide, stepping it up on Tumwater another 1000cfs or trying a class V for the first time. Pushing our own limits is a big part of what makes kayaking what it is. I will be right there to help clean things up if needed too. Like Christian said, if other people squash our confidence before a ‘step-up’ it effects our ability for success. When someone is going to step it up, it should be discussed pre-run or known that the person is feeling like they are stepping it up. I guess then a team or group dynamic does come into play.

Another thing to consider is: What are the expectations you have or what do you expect your buddies to do for you when rescue is necessary? Do you know what your buddies expect from you when they need help? Do you want to (or will you) be chasing after their paddle or boat? Do you expect them to chase after your gear? What about them chasing after your body or you after theirs? Kind of a bad question, but it needs to be answered (at least in your head). Those are the decisions that can’t wait to be decided during the moment. I understand there are endless variables that control the actual actions, but they should, at the very least, be considered. And I would go so far to say communicated to your close paddling buddies.

Your individual actions can turn kayaking from an individual sport to a team rescue/clean-up. There are other aspects of the sports that do involve the group or team more. Like lowering boats into a canyon or boat scouting/eddy-hopping down a river. But when it comes right down to it, the meat and potatoes of kayaking is that it’s an individual sport.

I dunno. I shouldn't say that in a strict sense, solo paddling is just a different aspect all together. I do enjoy the group element, too- just like jed said.I like a lot of different types of trips. I like leading beginners down stuff that may be near their limits but not over their heads. I like ripping down a familiar run with friends who are equally aquainted with the run. I like commercial raft trips too, looking out for "custys" as well as the guides and their boatmanship. But only solo paddling makes it a true individual sport.

And regardless, I was taught to look out for anyone I was sharing the river with. To cultivate a - Fish said it - "River Sense". Having eyes in the back of your head, as some of you brought up in your posts.

Historicly it was so dangerous back in whitewater's early pioneer phase that you really needed companionship simply to survive what would now be considered class II. And we can't forget that all the little rules, gear and procedures we got around that help us stay safe were largely the result of incidents and accidents where people learned these lessons with their lives: foot entrapments being the most obvious example. So are the larger cockpits, the blunt nose of the creekboat, rescue harness, and other innovations ect. These things have made us safer, but we still need each other out there.
Like when your buddy's rig breaks down.

Indeed when people keep charging downstream and you are the one left in the dust it does invoke a solo feeling, doesn't it? Or how bout that good 'ol favorite childhood past time: "Lost In The Woods".
Basicly it comes down to each individual having some sense of awareness of the groups they are paddling with. Different groups have different sensibilities and different objectives.

If you want to shred down the river you gotta hook up with the shredders. But if you are taking a beginner, you have the personal responsibility of applying your skills and experience toward their safety and/or comfort. Or if someone with you is out of shape, or injured, ect. If you put on with them you are somewhat ethicly bound to them. At least in a theororetical, ethical sense. But since different individuals have different perceptions of where their ethical obligation lies, it comes back to the individual(s) involved to know himself/herself/themselves. And then to know who you are adventuring with.

Ok, D- fair enough I agree all the way. But, just to be Devil's advocate, those elements you cited (lowering boats, eddy hopping, ect.) Are critical moments in the process of a day's worth of adventure kayaking. And so while I agree with your assessment of the individual's experience throughout the day, it is undeniably a group structure that allows that individual the experience. Sure, some paddlers paddle solo, but most paddle deliberately in a group setting. And therefore those individual decisions we make bind us somewhat to the group we are with whether we like it or not.

But that has always been one of the aspects of the sport that made it appealing to so many: that team building aspect. In fact, that element, consciously or subconsciously attracts a lot of people to the sport either as private boaters (i.e. kayakers or rafters) or as commercial rafters. For many the group participation element is a big part of why they are getting out. True, though: as you focus the context on creekin and advanced kayaking, the individual aspects take on more dimensions. I agree that one shouldn't falsely rely on a safety net that may not exist, but I'd rather think that my paddling partners can aid me in my time of need. And, that I can help them as well.

Christian, great topic. Kayaking, unless no one got on the river with you, is a team sport. Sure there are personal decisions throughout the run we all make, but in the end we are out there together. Our group goal? To be "on the river" or "to run all the rapids" however you want to say it "to create and participate in the experience of paddling/hiking/portaging/whatever down this river before us".

Our individual roll may change momentarily as someone runs a tough or dangerous rapid (Landslide on Robe as an example), but we are with the person running it, in spirit. It is still a group moment. We are all participating in one way or another. Even if that person's soloed Landslide before. When you put on as a group, it's a group activity. When soloing an entire run, well, you're by yourself. Different people change the group dynamic. It may change who is in YOUR group on a particular run. Certainly individual decision occurs within each person throughout the group's run down the river. Nevertheless, it's a group creation occurring and made up of individual expression, decision, and participation (even if it's standing on the bank picking your nose, you're still there contributing to the collective pot).

Everyone pretty much has agreed that the physical action and motions of Kayaking are individually executed (excluding topo duos). While this does not comprise the whole sport, It does contain a very large portion of the physical involvement.

I think Solo kayaking has very little to do with the individual aspect of the sport and much more to do with a days situation and a momentary preference. Allow me to digress.

Most of the solo paddling that I know of is done for the following reasons

The paddler could not find partners
The paddler did not want to wait for a group that was coming
The paddler was playboating and is notorious for being stingy with the goods
The paddler just wanted to go alone for a change, for peace, or for the experience
The paddler just always paddles alone

Now which of these do you think is the least common. I am going to say the last one. Not many paddlers just do it alone all the time. I know there have been some in the history of paddling but that is VERY VERY Rare. Now of the remaining reasons most point to the paddler paddling with a group and alone in a more seldom occurrence. I know from my own experience it is usually due to the first 2 reasons, and it is not a very big ratio.

For all the solo paddlers out there, ask yourself a few of these questions and then decided how you feel about considering solo paddling the bigger factor in making kayaking an individual sport.

What ratio of trips do you paddle solo?
Of the runs you paddle solo - Was your first trip down solo or with a group? IE did you learn the run alone or with a group?

For these reasons I am going to stick with my initial reasoning. Solo kayaking has much less to do with making the sport about an individual than the actions and motions of the sport it self.

To close my argument, consider this esteemed counselors and readers,

Who did you like more Chewbacca or Han Solo?
Look even Han Solo acted like he was a one man team and did it all alone all the time, but he was part of a group and his hairy counterpart might possibly be everyones favorite anyway. So really ask yourself do you want to be a lonely dick or paddling with a princess?

Ah yes- the proverbial "Landslide" example once again- I rapid that gets run by, what? 5-10 people?

Not knocking your post Bret- there is nothing wrong with it.
But what I am seein among these posts, when matched against what I see unfolding on the river are two distinctly different things:

On one hand several paddlers have gathered around individual computers, and created a dialog- a group act. Most of us weighed in with assertions that it is a group sport.

On the other what plays out on the river is often more akin to Anarchy-- a loose conglomeration of individuals at best. For me, to go back to the Landslide example, I don't feel participant in the activity when Rob runs it, because I am in the midst of a very rigorous portage. It requires my focus and attention, and not only that, it takes longer than it takes Rob to run it. So by stopping to watch, I am, theoretically, slowing 'the group' down. So I portage while he runs it, and ussually am completely absent from his experience. If he were to get into trouble it would take a span of time for me to be able to mobilize and help. Then again, if he asked for me to set safety, then my role would be recast as a participant.

My point is, as I think Bret implied, that there are so many different individuals comprising so many different groups in so many different situations that it is difficult to generalize.

The bottom line is that there is no "one size fits all" approach. No cookie cutter outlines or protocols that will be adhered to under all circumstances. It is cade by case. A casual summer day on the Sky with 30 paddlers is different then a crew of 4 or 5 going in to run McCoy creek for their first (maybe only) time. A garden variety flow on Robe (5.2'-5.4') brings a few extra boaters out of the woodwork. It's like: "cool look at this big posse on Robe today". But then when its over 6', I'm personally more attuned to who I am out there with, whether they are gonna have problems, or whether they are looking out for me, ect.

A good example is when a hole litterally pulled me out of my boat on Robe once at 6.2'. I sure as hell wasn't gonna swim because Cody was 1/4mi downstream and Rob was no where to be seen. I shimmied back into my boat, rolled it up full of water, still in the hole, flushed, and paddled 60 yards to the bank to empty. Finally, almost just before disappearing from sight, Cody turns and looks back from his 1/4mi lead, sees me paddling for the bank (boat full of water, popped skirt) and throws his arms up in a "WTF?!" gesture. He is too far away to see my boat is full of water, and obviously didn't see my can getting kicked. Now, mostly, I can take care of myself - and its a good thing, bevause had I swam, me and my gear would likely have been strewn all up and down that high water run before either of these "expert boaters" could respond. Really all I wanted at the moment would've been for Cody to wait up long enough for me to at least empty my boat so I could hop back in and continue. I put "expert boaters" in quotations to draw attention to the fact that while both of those paddlers are experts at running their craft as individuals, they don't necessarily always exhibit the "expert" characteristics of paddling as a group, i.e. looking out for one another.

That's not to dis them, either- as I have found myself "guilty" of the same... Reduced Scope of awareness. But, such awareness is something I actively, consciously try to practice.

James, you Bastardo! You sound like a pundit on NPR or somethin.
Dude- kick Chewie, Han Solo, and Luke off the Millenium Falcon, and give me the Princess. We'll keep the droids cause they're usefull for all kinds of stuff- Artoo is a good shot with a Throw Bag, if you haven't seen him in action...

But seriously, at the risk of turning this into some acedemic discussion that serves no one (yeah, Cody or Rob may not care about pondering these issues but plenty of novices might be hungry to gleen some insights from this discussion), I'd say that we are talking primarily about a group activity.

Those who value the safety and security, real or percieved, should make that a priority when choosing who to boat with.

Those who want to empasize the more individual...liberties related to the way they prefer to run the river should put on with like minded people.

What I would hope PPeeps would take away from this thread would be some consideration about all of the possibilities inherent in a "mix 'n match" way of boating with whoever. If you boat with the same peeps consistently, you hopefully know how they operate. Are they slow to get reafy at the put in? Do they like to thoroughly scout an unfamiliar run? Are they all about the Blue Angel, and/or running down through the whole run at race speed? Somewhere inbetween? Those are but a few ecamples. A rarer cade would be a kayak buddy who has no legs. He may shred better than you once he's on the water, but he may need your help getting down to the bank.

To sum it up, I think the original spirit of Christian's posting of this thread was not to merely distinguish whether its and individual or group sport. It was to examine how various paddlers intetact as individuals within a group. That is really a much more complex social question. One that, despite the thoughtful responses, we've barely scratched the surface of.

This could potentially be a very long, thought provoking thread.

I'm not very good at communicating clearly, especially through typing. I'm also not trying to convince anybody that kayaking is completely an individual sport. There is no doubt that paddling with a group has a team or group dynamic to it. I really enjoy getting out and paddling with a group, especially when things go well. I also like the rescue and clean-up side of things as long as nobody gets hurt (and if I don’t get home late to the family).

This post started in light of the fatality on the Blackwater. And my perspective is coming from those grounds. Namely class 5 and the risks associated with paddling class 5.

Maybe what I'm getting at is a little different. If you are or plan to paddle class 5 you need to understand that kayaking class 5 is as individual of a sport as you can get. And if you think your buddies will be able to rescue you, I would tell you that that is an illusion. In order to paddle class 5, you need to be willing to accept this concept or you are deceiving yourself.

I will state my point then try to explain: Kayaking class 5 is an individual choice or individual sport. Bottom line is, when you put on the river there are two outcomes:

1. You make it to the take-out unscathed.

2. You get injured or die while kayaking the run.

The reality is that you are the only one responsible/in control of the outcome, which ever it may be. The fellow who died on the Blackwater was a skilled class 5 paddler. He had done the run before, his group talked about the line at Flatliner directly above it, the individual ferried out and missed his line. He alone decided to run the rapid, he alone controled his craft, he alone made the decision to increase his right angle while he neared the lip. All of those were in his control. He died. There is nothing anybody else could have done. Before or after the pin. I don’t see how it can be more ‘individual’ than that. Nobody else was controlling his boat or his choice to run it.

The guys he was boating with were some of the best around. They set-up rescue fast and did everything they or anyone possibly could have done. I think this is where we find a false sense of security or safety in a group. It is nice to think our buddies can bail us out, as there are definitely situations where this is the case. However, there are many cases where our buddies can do nothing.

Sure he was with a group or team. But the outcome was not changed by the fact he was with a group. Only difference is it would have taken a bit longer to find out that it happened.

I’m not trying to win an argument or anything. Or even prove a point. I just want people to know that it is really up to the individual to decide: what run they do, at whatever water level, which rapids they run and that they are the only one in control of their boat. And when things do go real bad, there could be very little others could do for them. Even if they feel safety in a group.

In December 2000, I was a member of a group of six that paddled the Nisqually. We lost our friend Chris that day. He pinned about 5’ from us and we did everything we could to save him. The events parallel the Blackwater fatality. The following months I thought through kayaking and kayaking class 5. This is when I truely understood that kayaking class 5 was an individual endeavour. We are out there as a group, we look out for each other, we rescue each other, but it is ultimately our decision to go to the run and no one else is in control of what happens to our boat.

I say all this because I care about you guys -- the community of individuals who will make up my group or team in the coming years as we paddle together. I’m not trying to spook anybody, but I think some emphasis needs to be put on the individaul rather than the team. Lets be safe and choose wisely.

Another point to go along with what Darren is saying is that wether paddling class V or III the individual isn't going to paddle a III run knowing they are going to swim repeatedly down the run, expecting friends to pick them up the whole way down. I believe the moral majority have sense enough to realize they have a responsibility to the group NOT to swim all over the place on class III and especially class V. Swimming on Robe at 5.3 with yer buds is different than swimming on Robe at 6.3. I'll say this, and it goes under the category of river safety, the paddler has a responsibility to the group to paddle within their own limits, in class V I would call it a duty, because of the increased danger and potential exposure. We are going to do everything we can to get to you, but... we may not be able to. Individual decisions and actions within a group setting. When I go out on some of these runs, I do fully intend to rely on my own skill and ability to get me to the take out, no one else.

Very well stated Darren! I don't think anyone can argue with your points.

It is truly sad that some paddlers used this accident to insult and even call out the name of a paddler I have boated with and have respect for.

People, especially boaters should be more thoughtful... I'm so glad that I have never seen a discussion on our site. Thanks all! We have a great community and all mourn the loss of our brother on the other coast.

Amen Travis.

Bret said it well: on class V runs (class IV as well, for that matter- cuz if you cant keep it together as a class IV boater, how can ya leter on?) it is one's duty to the group as an individual to be pepared, fit, experienced, skilled, and qualified to be there in the name of recreation. A group is only as strong as its weakest link.

Yeah, Darren, your points balance out this subject really well, and there's no dispute. But when we start looking at all the ways that our individual actions impact the others in a group, it just comes back to acknowledging a level of responsibility to the group.

Where that fuzzy line is will vary widely from individual to individual, group to group. And the river itself is an inherently wild and risky playground, that we return to individually. There is an inherent element of chance on the river as well.

As far as the illusion of a safety net, well, you are right about that, too. But it doesn't have to be that way to the extent it is. Comments in this thread are common: about how in a highwater scenario there's nothing that can be done. I hear people waive it off dismissively frequently, in fact.

But there are a lot of tiny little tricks that groups of conscious individuals can employ to stack the deck in their favor.