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Wiggins
PP Junkie
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   Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 4:50pm |
I carry a gun just about everywhere I go except the river. The reason is not because I feel safe on the river. There are a lot of sketchy people hanging around shore. At the end of the day I don't want an anchor on me when I swim, I don't want to have to recover a boat when it is too dangerous to do so just because the boat is now the one packing, and I don't want to arm the local vehicle prowler. There is just no good way to carry a gun on the river for a kayaker.
I have, at times, carried a small revolver inside my drysuit because I had plans after kayaking that were taking me places I didn't want to go unarmed. That is the most uncomfortable I have ever been in a boat.
The bottom line is that there is more to carrying a gun than being able to shoot. It is a liability minefield, and extremely dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. Someone with a gun who does not know how to tactically handle one is more of a danger to everyone other than their target.
At the end of the day there are two types of people: trained and untrained. Assuming you are lucky enough to survive a gunfight the sharks are going to start to circle. When they start asking questions about why you did what you did you probably want a better answer than it looked good on TV, or that you thought about it a lot and (insert folksy gunfu wisdom here).
In the fallout you will have to survive two legal battles; one criminal, and one civil. If you are going to carry get training. There are a couple of good outfits that train people in western Washington. I have experience with Insights Training, and Firearms Academy of Seattle. Both offer great classes to CPL holders.
Kyle
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I smell bacon
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RemAcct2
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Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 4:57pm |
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Again, I was being humorous in my first post. To be clear, I do think it can be valuable to carry on wilderness multiday trips for protection from wildlife. Wiggins - thoughts?
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dave
Master Poster
D4
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Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 6:49pm |
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Lief, just feed me some of your chili and carry me around. That would be more lethal than a firearm...fireass
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Nomad
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water wacko
Master Poster
Team Jackson
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Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 7:19pm |
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I'll boat with you, Leif. You big dummy.
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dave
Master Poster
D4
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
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Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 7:41pm |
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Then boat tomorrow, Sky Sultan combo....Sultan first, then sky...
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Nomad
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irenen
Big Boofer
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Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 9:49pm |
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Dave, that was my suggestion and I got nixed. 'Too much work'. :)
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It's all fun and games until someone loses a paddle.
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jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 10:49pm |
Originally posted by Wiggins
There are a lot of sketchy people hanging around shore. Oh c'mon, Kyle. I'm not that bad  Just kiddin- I know sure as hell you ain't afraid of my clown'n ass
Originally posted by Wiggins At the end of the day I don't want an anchor on me when I swim, I don't want to have to recover a boat when it is too dangerous to do so just because the boat is now the one packing, and I don't want to arm the local vehicle prowler. There is just no good way to carry a gun on the river for a kayaker.
Take heed, here, wayward son -- yeah that's you Leif. You should read and reread Kyle's words of wisdom...
Originally posted by Wiggins
The bottom line is that there is more to carrying a gun than being able to shoot. It is a liability minefield, and extremely dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. Someone with a gun who does not know how to tactically handle one is more of a danger to everyone other than their target.
See how you could just as easily insert "boat" for "gun"? In other words, Leif, how about learning how to kayak first? Then learning how to handle your gun, before combining the two. If you can't do either well, you shouldn't be trying to "multitask". Your boat is a big enough weapon with you in it as it is, without a gun in it. There's been more than one beginner who I was taking downriver for their first few times in a kayak, only to have them shaking in terror (or at the very least unnecisarily cpasized) because you bumbled into them when you should have been aware enough and proficient enough to give them space. I hope you were only talking sh*t about this. If you were serious about packing a gun down the river, Leif, then I'm afraid you're a bigger idiot than I ever thought. Sorry but you opened this can of worms and now I have to be the one to bring out "The Big Guns" Ok, I'm pouring on too strong now I admit. I'm finished. But really, Leif, when are you gonna start thinking before "Shooting off your mouth"?
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🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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RemAcct2
Limited Access
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Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 11:08pm |
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JP - I don't really need you to publicly insult me. Send it in a PM if you feel the need. This sort of exchange is why people are turned away from PP; this sort of thing is an embarrassment to our community.
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wallyworld
Paddler
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
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Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 11:57pm |
Don't carry a gun in a kayak. It's silly and paranoid no matter the mission.
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let's go get it
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Wiggins
PP Junkie
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Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 5:56am |
Lief,
Keep in mind that a .45 is a handgun round, and therefore, very limited in how much damage it can inflict. If you are worried about animal attacks you need a gun capable of not just killing, but stopping the animal in question dead in its tracks. Unless you are worried about wascally wabbits you need either a shotgun loaded with slugs or a high powered rifle for effective self defense against four legged critters. Even the much talked about .500 S&W falls short in this area (and it was designed for bears). Alway use a long gun if you have the choice. They have higher hit percentages (and with animals you often only get one shot), usually more power, and if all else fails they make a better club. The only reason to have a handgun is so you can fight your way to a rifle!
My guns of choice for this are my 12 ga., my .45-70 loaded with the really hot rounds, or my M1A (an "assault rifle" that holds 20 rounds of .308; and this one is my last choice). If grizzlies were a part of the equation I would take my .45-70, but really should have something on the larger end of the African big game scale like a .458 Lott.
None of these guns could be carried in a kayak and deployed quickly.
Kyle
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I smell bacon
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water wacko
Master Poster
Team Jackson
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Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 7:31am |
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Yield Leif, yield!!! jk
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Weide
McNasty
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 10:06am |
On a recent trip to the Tilton, I was mistaken for a Native American "Spirit Bear". I assume my rotund nature and pale complexion resulted in the mistaken identification. Regardless, I am very thankful that no one was armed and looking for a trophy. Despite my grizzled good looks, I believe I am more entertaining as a jolly pale fat man than a grinning mount above the fireplace.
P.S. Please don't shoot me.
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Courtney
Big Boofer
Whitewater,sea kayaking, snowboarding, backpacking.
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Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 10:44am |
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Is a 12" bowie knife exceptable for use on the river? Rambo kicked a bunch of gun toting redneck ass with one of those.
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James
Admin
Sum Dum Guy
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Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 1:20pm |
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Weide - Best response in the thread.
I find it amusing that what started as a simple news share turned into yet another rant of rants. Since it's old news there does not seem to be the need for a few thread so I will just chime in here.
Leif you point out why your carry a gun, for wilderness protection. Let me put it this way for you.
When your out playboating do you wear carbon fiber gloves, elbow pads and a spinal protector? Oops bad example.
Do you even know what types of predators are in Idaho?
I could understand packing on an arctic paddle through polar bear country but it is actually illegal. Big controversy too in Nunavut also, where expedition guides believe the government is putting people at risk and the government basically says... stay the heck out of those areas. Mainly because the government is run by natives that don't believe you have business going into areas you can't survive in. Like leaving your poo and paper in the grand canyon.
So do I believe it is ok to pack a gun on a wilderness trip? honestly I think it is stupid unless you are going to kill to eat, then it is fine. But if you really think you need a gun for protection in the wilderness you are not fit to be that deep. You have a greater chance of getting hurt boarding back country then being attacked by an animal on a boating trip. I would actually go as far as to say that you are more likely to get tired hiking to your stash in the woods, become lost and starve. HOWEVER once your dead an animal is likely to eat your carcass!!! So instead of packing heat maybe you should soak in simple green to keep the scavengers at bay...
ahhahaha - We love you Leif, and PP is not getting old because of this stuff. It's getting old because it's getting old. More people know each other now and don't feel the need to read posts from douche bags like me and you to reach the rio!!!!! Thats a discussion for another time though.
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dragorossinw
WW Industry
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Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 2:16pm |
Wow, what a thread. Just to note, I carry nearly all the time, on multi day trips for sure! Bears, cougar, sure, but mostly for rattlers in idaho (which is most of my multi day stuff) 45cal or 9mm snake shot rounds are great (like a little shotgun blast in a compact pistol), those little bastards would like nothing more then to curl up under your nice warm tent or sleeping bag - which I have experienced first hand. Besides, a good fresh Chukar is tastey (like buttery chicken) on an Idaho multi day. Oh yah, and just in case I run in to those guys from 'Deliverance'.
Over the years, I have found it amazing that those who preach and scream about civil rights, freedom of speach, this right and that right the most; piss them selves when it comes to 'the right to bare arms'. Which is called a right, but is more of a priviledge and needs to be done so with proper training and common sense, not just a CCW Permit.
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Tony Z
dragorossinorthwest@yahoo.com
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www.dragorossi.com
www.donkeyfIip.com
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water wacko
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Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 8:26am |
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This site could easily be renamed PP Soapbox!!
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matta
Splat Wheeler
Joined: 21 Jan 2007
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Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 9:03am |
Y.E.onDOMReady(show_notes_initially);
Try to tell this lady that the right to bare arms is only a privilege
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water wacko
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Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 9:11am |
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Nice, matta!!
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dragorossinw
WW Industry
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Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 9:28am |
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Tony Z
dragorossinorthwest@yahoo.com
www.nookiekayaking.us
www.dragorossi.com
www.donkeyfIip.com
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dave
Master Poster
D4
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Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 11:03am |
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This a funny thread. While you guys were posting crap about guns, we spent over 8 hours on the Sky and Sultan doing an epic play day yesterday.
James, do you kayak anymore or just post on PP?
Let's get back to kayakin here and trash the politics.
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Nomad
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Tobin
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Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 5:09pm |
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GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE - COPS DO! PEACE TONY
THIS IS RETARDED! WITH A RE RE[U][/U]
THE MORAL TO THE STORY IS THAT LEIF SHOULD HAVE BEEN DENIED THE ABILITY TO PURCHASE A CONCEALED WEAPON.
Monetary ability and a lack of self sustainability does not justify 'PACKING'
I propose a muzzle would be far more effective in his situation, and far less dangerous to anyone in a 1/2 mile radius?
I got nothing against guns, but guns in DUMBASSES HANDS is just dumb.
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Sure?
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Wiggins
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Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 5:27pm |
Originally posted by Weide
Despite my grizzled good looks, I believe I am more entertaining as a jolly pale fat man than a grinning mount above the fireplace.
P.S. Please don't shoot me.
It sounds like the answer t your problem it is to get a handgun and a CPL so you can shoot back!
For the record, how well armed I am in the wilderness is directly related to how big of a pain in the ass it is to have with me. In the woods I see guns as non essential gear. If it is easy to bring along great, but if not it can stay at home; and if milk jugs full of water are going to be present I will move heaven and earth to bring my gats! I have been fishing in big brown bear country and never felt uncomfortable unarmed, and I have always found snakes and other creepy crawlies easy enough to avoid. I guess I just trust animal behavior more than human behavior.
I am back working weekends, so I didn't miss any boating by talking guns!
Kyle
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I smell bacon
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JoesKayak
Rio Banditos
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Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 12:47pm |
Yes it's true. Guns don't belong in kayaks. However, I am getting a .50 caliber machine gun mounted to the expedition frame for my raft. Or maybe a gatling gun just like John Wayne and Katherine Hepburn had. 
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up4air
McNasty
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Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 4:55pm |
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Do I hear banjo music?
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More water, please.
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