Chit Chat: Kayakers chase down teen shooters
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Kayakers chase down teen shooters

Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Chit Chat
Forum Discription: Non Boating Related Discussions
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9141
Printed Date: 13 Jul 2025 at 12:59pm


Topic: Kayakers chase down teen shooters
Posted By: slickhorn
Subject: Kayakers chase down teen shooters
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 11:57am
from http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=11840470 - http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=11840470


SPOKANE VALLEY, Wash. - A pair of Spokane Valley teens was arrested Sunday afternoon after they used a pellet gun to shoot a 50-year-old man kayaking on the Spokane River.
Deputies were called to 16800 E. Indiana about 3:45 p.m. Sunday after the two 17-year-old suspects were caught and held by the two kayakers and a neighbor in the area.
The victim told a deputy that he and the other man had been on the river at the Flora Rapids when the he was hit in the back with a pellet, though he was not injured. When the two began paddling to shore, the two teen boys took off running.
 
The neighbor said he had watched the two boys shooting at the kayakers from his kitchen window. When the kayakers began chasing the boys, he went up to the end of Flora Road to head them off.
An investigation revealed the teens had fired four or five pellets at the kayakers before hitting the one man. Both teens were arrested for Aiming/Discharging a Deadly Weapon and Fourth-Degree Assault. 
The teens were released to their parents.
- Spokane Valley Police



Replies:
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 12:50pm
The PFD probably helped soften the blow.


Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 5:50pm
See, you guys wonder why I sometimes have my .45 in my boat. Now you know why.

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Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 5:55pm
So, these kayakers could not be content with just chasing the kids off? They actually had to spend the time to get these kids prosecuted and destroy their lives for just some stupid sh*t that kids sometimes do? In the old days we would just chase em down and give em a stern talking too or just chase em away. I can see prosecution if they keep doing it and others report it or someone got hurt, but for just one stupid time, they should have been given a break...

I feel sorry for the kids, this  cold really mess up their futures...


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Nomad


Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 5:56pm
Please don't shoot me Lief, I don't want to die that way...

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Nomad


Posted By: James
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 6:11pm
The .45 is useless against kids with a pellet gun. Whilst you are waving a gun around racking up felonies, I would have called the parents and then requested permission to issue an ass whippin.

And to Dave: it will not mess up their futures trust me. Under 18 is a beautiful thing


Posted By: franzhorner
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 6:29pm
I think a sound ass kicking would have sufficed.  There is nothing more humiliating than getting your ass beat when you deserve it.  I'm reminded of JP's story of finding that guy breaking into his roomate's car.

Those kids were idiots.  How could they not out run those boaters?!!  Also, shooting people who aren't expecting it is unsporting.  We had plenty of young kids up for BB gun wars in the woods.  We would also not pump to full.  I used to wear a puffy down vest and body shots were all we were after....

Regarding Lief...I am all for more responsible gun owners carrying.  Having seen someone get shot and killed while on the river I am hesitant to have every Tom Dick and Harry packing heat but, I trust that people like Lief would only use it if there was someone doing something REALLY wrong.  I would also believe that Lief keeps solid tabs on his weapons and the chances of an accidental shooting are very very low......


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MORE RAIN PLEASE


Posted By: slickhorn
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 6:30pm
Originally posted by dave

So, these kayakers could not be content with just chasing the kids off? They actually had to spend the time to get these kids prosecuted and destroy their lives for just some stupid sh*t that kids sometimes do? In the old days we would just chase em down and give em a stern talking too or just chase em away. I can see prosecution if they keep doing it and others report it or someone got hurt, but for just one stupid time, they should have been given a break...I feel sorry for the kids, this  cold really mess up their futures...


WTF? I'm as anti-authority as anyone, but in no way ever is shooting anyone with anything okay. I might lean towards James' method of involve the parents and not rush to charges, but no way they get off with a talking to.

boating with a .45?   

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Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 6:55pm
I only bring a weapon on wilderness trips, when there is a concern of animals in the camp.  I like to mention it in contexts like this because it makes James nervous.  Making James nervous is kind of a hobby of mine...  

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Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 6:56pm
Originally posted by James

The .45 is useless against kids with a pellet gun. Whilst you are waving a gun around racking up felonies, I would have called the parents and then requested permission to issue an ass whippin.

And to Dave: it will not mess up their futures trust me. Under 18 is a beautiful thing


Any offense you commit now as a minor will stay on your permanent record forever. There is no sealing of records any more. The government changed the law a few years ago and now you are screwed for life. While assault 4 is only a misdemeanor, it is still considered a violent offense and will keep them from many things in life they may want to do in the future.

There are no breaks anymore once you involve the law...


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Nomad


Posted By: James
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 7:16pm
Ok phew, a few years ago.. I'm good then. I was promised ya know!


Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 8:55pm
Ya, you would be totally screwed these days. The old days of giving a minor a break are gone and the new day of MAXIMUM PUNISHMENT are here to stay...until we have a revolution or something worse...remember the Romans and what happened to them...

The LAW knows no mercy any more, not with crime being what it is these days.


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Nomad


Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 6:48am
Dave, kids shooting at unsuspecting people isn't funny or okay. What if the guy got shot in the face, or the back of the head and he drowned? I would've called the fuzz, too.


Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 6:54am
Sounds to me like we have a young Dick Cheney on our hands.

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Posted By: slickhorn
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 8:08am
you might be misremembering your history.  It was Cheney who shot unsuspecting people in the face with a gun and faced no charges or other consequences.

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Posted By: matta
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 8:30am

"Any offense you commit now as a minor will stay on your permanent record forever. There is no sealing of records any more. The government changed the law a few years ago and now you are screwed for life. While assault 4 is only a misdemeanor, it is still considered a violent offense and will keep them from many things in life they may want to do in the future.

There are no breaks anymore once you involve the law..."

Actually, there are a bunch of ways to allow the kids to take responsibility for their actions, face some sort of punishment/rehab (community service, gun classes, jail - although jail would be unlikely for this case with a kid without significant criminal history in king county) and still not be affected down the road if they comply with what they are supposed to do.

Juvenile courts allow for "diversions" of juvenile misdemeanors. This requires a juvenile go to a community diversion committee, do some sort of punishment/rehab (probably a gun safety  class and community service) and the case is never filed, therefore there is no conviction. RCW 13.04.080

Even if a child fails to comply with diversion or is never sent to the diversion committee because the prosecutor deems the child's history to be to significant or the crime to be to serious, the prosecutor may negotiate to a different charge, one that carries less stigma than assault. (I have no idea if there's a statute, but I'm a prosecutor and I do it all the time).

Even if a child pleads guilty to Assault 4 (or another charge), the prosecutor has the ability to recommend a deferred sentence, which results in the case being dismissed if the child satisfies the conditions of sentence. First time offenders commonly get deferred recommendations. As your criminal history piles up, you are less likely to get that consideration. (RCW 3.66.067.)

Even if the prosecutor elects not to recommend the deferred sentence, the court can impose it over the objection of the prosecutor (same statute as above, same discretionary considerations). 

Even if a deferred sentence is not imposed and there is no possibility for a later dismissal of the charges, the child may ask the court to seal the conviction record by WSP (When you do a criminal history check, WSP provides the response, therefore an employer requesting such records would not be made aware of it). State v. Noel, 101 Wn.App. 623, 5 P.3d 747, (2000).

Even if you were convicted of a felony (not the case here), a juvenile or adult may seek vacation of the records under RCWA 9.94A.640. Vacation of the record also prevent WSP from reporting the conviction. The assertion that Assault 4 is considered a "violent offense" is 1/2 true. Yes most people consider it violent b/c you assaulted someone, but for this purpose and pretty much all others in the criminal justice system, a violent offense is defined, is limited to felonies and Assault 4 doesn't qualify. RCWA 9.94A.030

It is true that none of these possibilities provides for sealing of the court file itself, but the court file is not what is searched when one asks the State of Washington for a crim history check, its the WSP file (There is no easy way to check all of the court files in this state, they are kept individually by county). Sealing of a court file has constitutional considerations and requires "compelling circumstances" which are unlikely to be found in this case, even assuming the kids stays on the straight and narrow for an extended period of time. Anyone who actually went to the trouble of doing a county by county search and found the file, however, would also see the nature of the offense, the resolution and whether the child complied with the requirements of any sentence. I suppose someone could decide to not hire someone for a job b/c of something like this, but it would be an odd decision if this was the only black mark on the person.


 



Posted By: JoesKayak
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 8:47am
Originally posted by dave

Originally posted by James



And to Dave: it will not mess up their futures trust me. Under 18 is a beautiful thing


Any offense you commit now as a minor will stay on your permanent record forever. There is no sealing of records any more. The government changed the law a few years ago and now you are screwed for life. While assault 4 is only a misdemeanor, it is still considered a violent offense and will keep them from many things in life they may want to do in the future.

There are no breaks anymore once you involve the law...



Good! fu*k 'em. Serves them right. Anyone shoots at me or any other boater whether it be a pellet gun or a rifle, should be dealt with by the law. Not only to punish them but to deter other knuckleheads from trying something similar. I can't believe there's even any question to this on this forum.


Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 1:34pm
yeah- at some point, while I too, abhor the excessive "Long Arm of the Law" I realize that's the reson we have laws to begin with. The way I was raised, I always have considered assaulting people like this absolutely unthinkable!
-- err, uhh-wait- I confess there was that time inOhiopyle when my friends and I had an extremely efficient waterballon launcher and assaulted some unsuspecting canoeists-never mind.
 
Stay tuned for a full account of the whole event (it's among some of the best of my "River Lies!")
Suffice to say the victom got his own vindication, and we had to face our wrong doing, albiet in a fairly inconsequential way. I felt bad about it later and regretted my actions.
 
Guns, are different though, even if only sybolicly.
 


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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by leifkirchoff

See, you guys wonder why I sometimes have my .45 in my boat. Now you know why.
 
God help us...
 
So you're packing heat on the river now are ya? Or maybe you're just talking more sh*t like you always do?
 
Either way translates to more solid reasoning not to paddle with you.
 
But (less) seriously-
This new knowledge suggests to me that you should really learn how to boof Leif. I can just imagine you running the N. Frk of the Sauk or some similarly steep, mank infested boulder garden of a creek, flying off of a drop all outta control the way you do, pencilling in with a dranmatic piton, and having your loaded gun go off in your boat. Perhaps ruining the trip for everyone you are with who didn't even know you were packing a gun-as they have to evacuate you out of some canyon now.
 
Dude I am going to laugh my ass off someday when I read Charlie Walbridge's report!!
 
I know, It wouldn't really go off like that, but It's a humorous fantasy, you gotta admit!
And the truth is I wouldn't wish any sort of gun related mishap upon you. Be safe with that thing, Leif, OK? You worry me, kid.


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Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 3:24pm
Leif, please don't bring a GUN when you paddle with me. Work on making the guns you already have work for you.


Posted By: ThrowYaMittsUp
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 4:07pm
That's great Leif. You carry a gun to make other people nervous? Seems like a perfectly valid reason to me, and just one more reason for people to avoid you.

That's pretty f-in core!


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"Call on God, but row away from the rocks." ~H.S. Thompson


Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 4:12pm
No, I talk about guns to make James nervous. I thought I made that clear when I said James, not People. I think I carried a weapon with me once or twice out of 110 days last year. Not that I really give a damn whether "people" will or won't boat with me.

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Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 9:32pm
That's cool, I forgot Matta was a prosecutor. You know me, my info is always a little off or opinionated.

I'm also an unusually forgiving person, something we could use more of in this world, so I always hate to see people get pulled into the system for first time offenses. I guess we only see the bad side of our system on the news, and not the foriving side.   

Anyway, I will boat with you Leif. Just don't shoot at me please.

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Nomad


Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 9:34pm
Dave, if I shot at you, I'd have no one to boat with...

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Posted By: rayw
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 9:13am
Leif, this is exactly why I don't tell people when I'm strapped. I carry often but it always seems to freak everyone out if they know I'm packing at the time. Plus, just saying you have a gun or even a concealed weapons permit can be considered a threat and could potentially get you in trouble.

what they don't know can't hurt em' or can it?


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rayweinrich@gmail.com
253.370.6299


Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 4:50pm
I carry a gun just about everywhere I go except the river. The reason is not because I feel safe on the river. There are a lot of sketchy people hanging around shore. At the end of the day I don't want an anchor on me when I swim, I don't want to have to recover a boat when it is too dangerous to do so just because the boat is now the one packing, and I don't want to arm the local vehicle prowler. There is just no good way to carry a gun on the river for a kayaker.
 
I have, at times, carried a small revolver inside my drysuit because I had plans after kayaking that were taking me places I didn't want to go unarmed. That is the most uncomfortable I have ever been in a boat.
 
The bottom line is that there is more to carrying a gun than being able to shoot. It is a liability minefield, and extremely dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. Someone with a gun who does not know how to tactically handle one is more of a danger to everyone other than their target.
 
At the end of the day there are two types of people: trained and untrained. Assuming you are lucky enough to survive a gunfight the sharks are going to start to circle. When they start asking questions about why you did what you did you probably want a better answer than it looked good on TV, or that you thought about it a lot and (insert folksy gunfu wisdom here).
 
In the fallout you will have to survive two legal battles; one criminal, and one civil. If you are going to carry get training. There are a couple of good outfits that train people in western Washington. I have experience with Insights Training, and Firearms Academy of Seattle. Both offer great classes to CPL holders.
 
Kyle


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I smell bacon


Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 4:57pm
Again, I was being humorous in my first post. To be clear, I do think it can be valuable to carry on wilderness multiday trips for protection from wildlife. Wiggins - thoughts?

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Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 6:49pm
Lief, just feed me some of your chili and carry me around. That would be more lethal than a firearm...fireass

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Nomad


Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 7:19pm
I'll boat with you, Leif. You big dummy.


Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 7:41pm
Then boat tomorrow, Sky Sultan combo....Sultan first, then sky...

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Nomad


Posted By: irenen
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 9:49pm
Dave, that was my suggestion and I got nixed. 'Too much work'. :)

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It's all fun and games until someone loses a paddle.


Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 10:49pm
Originally posted by Wiggins

There are a lot of sketchy people hanging around shore.


Oh c'mon, Kyle. I'm not that bad Just kiddin- I know sure as hell you ain't afraid of my clown'n ass

Originally posted by Wiggins


 At the end of the day I don't want an anchor on me when I swim, I don't want to have to recover a boat when it is too dangerous to do so just because the boat is now the one packing, and I don't want to arm the local vehicle prowler. There is just no good way to carry a gun on the river for a kayaker.


Take heed, here, wayward son -- yeah that's you Leif. You should read and reread Kyle's words of wisdom...

 
Originally posted by Wiggins

The bottom line is that there is more to carrying a gun than being able to shoot. It is a liability minefield, and extremely dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. Someone with a gun who does not know how to tactically handle one is more of a danger to everyone other than their target.
 


See how you could just as easily insert "boat" for "gun"?
In other words, Leif, how about learning how to kayak first? Then learning how to handle your gun, before combining the two. If you can't do either well, you shouldn't be trying to "multitask". Your boat is a big enough weapon with you in it as it is, without a gun in it.

There's been more than one beginner who I was taking downriver for their first few times in a kayak, only to have them shaking in terror (or at the very least unnecisarily cpasized) because you bumbled into them when you should have been aware enough and proficient enough to give them space.

I hope you were only talking sh*t about this. If you were serious about packing a gun down the river, Leif, then I'm afraid you're a bigger idiot than I ever thought. Sorry but you  opened this can of worms and now I have to be the one to bring out "The Big Guns"

Ok, I'm pouring on too strong now I admit. I'm finished. But really, Leif, when are you gonna start thinking before "Shooting off your mouth"?


 

 



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Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 11:08pm
JP - I don't really need you to publicly insult me.  Send it in a PM if you feel the need.  This sort of exchange is why people are turned away from PP; this sort of thing is an embarrassment to our community.


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Posted By: wallyworld
Date Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 11:57pm

Don't carry a gun in a kayak. It's silly and paranoid no matter the mission.



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let's go get it


Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 5:56am
Lief,
 
Keep in mind that a .45 is a handgun round, and therefore, very limited in how much damage it can inflict. If you are worried about animal attacks you need a gun capable of not just killing, but stopping the animal in question dead in its tracks. Unless you are worried about wascally wabbits you need either a shotgun loaded with slugs or a high powered rifle for effective self defense against four legged critters. Even the much talked about .500 S&W falls short in this area (and it was designed for bears). Alway use a long gun if you have the choice. They have higher hit percentages (and with animals you often only get one shot), usually more power, and if all else fails they make a better club. The only reason to have a handgun is so you can fight your way to a rifle!
 
My guns of choice for this are my 12 ga., my .45-70 loaded with the really hot rounds, or my M1A (an "assault rifle" that holds 20 rounds of .308; and this one is my last choice). If grizzlies were a part of the equation I would take my .45-70, but really should have something on the larger end of the African big game scale like a .458 Lott.
 
None of these guns could be carried in a kayak and deployed quickly.
 
Kyle


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I smell bacon


Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 7:31am
Yield Leif, yield!!! jk


Posted By: Weide
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 10:06am

On a recent trip to the Tilton, I was mistaken for a Native American "Spirit Bear". I assume my rotund nature and pale complexion resulted in the mistaken identification. Regardless, I am very thankful that no one was armed and looking for a trophy. Despite my grizzled good looks, I believe I am more entertaining as a jolly pale fat man than a grinning mount above the fireplace.

P.S. Please don't shoot me.


Posted By: Courtney
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 10:44am
Is a 12" bowie knife exceptable for use on the river?  Rambo kicked a bunch of gun toting redneck ass with one of those.


Posted By: James
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 1:20pm
Weide - Best response in the thread.

I find it amusing that what started as a simple news share turned into yet another rant of rants. Since it's old news there does not seem to be the need for a few thread so I will just chime in here.

Leif you point out why your carry a gun, for wilderness protection. Let me put it this way for you.

When your out playboating do you wear carbon fiber gloves, elbow pads and a spinal protector? Oops bad example.

Do you even know what types of predators are in Idaho?

I could understand packing on an arctic paddle through polar bear country but it is actually illegal. Big controversy too in Nunavut also, where expedition guides believe the government is putting people at risk and the government basically says... stay the heck out of those areas. Mainly because the government is run by natives that don't believe you have business going into areas you can't survive in. Like leaving your poo and paper in the grand canyon.

So do I believe it is ok to pack a gun on a wilderness trip? honestly I think it is stupid unless you are going to kill to eat, then it is fine. But if you really think you need a gun for protection in the wilderness you are not fit to be that deep. You have a greater chance of getting hurt boarding back country then being attacked by an animal on a boating trip. I would actually go as far as to say that you are more likely to get tired hiking to your stash in the woods, become lost and starve. HOWEVER once your dead an animal is likely to eat your carcass!!! So instead of packing heat maybe you should soak in simple green to keep the scavengers at bay...

ahhahaha  - We love you Leif, and PP is not getting old because of this stuff. It's getting old because it's getting old. More people know each other now and don't feel the need to read posts from douche bags like me and you to reach the rio!!!!! Thats a discussion for another time though.


Posted By: dragorossinw
Date Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 2:16pm
Wow, what a thread.  Just to note, I carry nearly all the time, on multi day trips for sure!  Bears, cougar, sure, but mostly for rattlers in idaho (which is most of my multi day stuff) 45cal or 9mm snake shot rounds are great (like a little shotgun blast in a compact pistol), those little bastards would like nothing more then to curl up under your nice warm tent or sleeping bag - which I have experienced first hand.  Besides, a good fresh Chukar is tastey (like buttery chicken) on an Idaho multi day.  Oh yah, and just in case I run in to those guys from 'Deliverance'.
 
Over the years, I have found it amazing that those who preach and scream about civil rights, freedom of speach, this right and that right the most; piss them selves when it comes to 'the right to bare arms'.  Which is called a right, but is more of a priviledge and needs to be done so with proper training and common sense, not just a CCW Permit.


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Tony Z
dragorossinorthwest@yahoo.com
www.nookiekayaking.us
www.dragorossi.com
www.donkeyfIip.com


Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 8:26am
This site could easily be renamed PP Soapbox!!


Posted By: matta
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 9:03am
Y.E.onDOMReady(show_notes_initially);  
Try to tell this lady that the right to bare arms is only a privilege


Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 9:11am
Nice, matta!!


Posted By: dragorossinw
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 9:28am

Nice sleeve work.



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Tony Z
dragorossinorthwest@yahoo.com
www.nookiekayaking.us
www.dragorossi.com
www.donkeyfIip.com


Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 11:03am
This a funny thread. While you guys were posting crap about guns, we spent over 8 hours on the Sky and Sultan doing an epic play day yesterday.

James, do you kayak anymore or just post on PP?

Let's get back to kayakin here and trash the politics.

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Nomad


Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 5:09pm
GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE - COPS DO! PEACE TONY
THIS IS RETARDED! WITH A RE RE[U][/U]

THE MORAL TO THE STORY IS THAT LEIF SHOULD HAVE BEEN DENIED THE ABILITY TO PURCHASE A CONCEALED WEAPON.
Monetary ability and a lack of self sustainability does not justify 'PACKING'
I propose a muzzle would be far more effective in his situation, and far less dangerous to anyone in a 1/2 mile radius?
I got nothing against guns, but guns in DUMBASSES HANDS is just dumb.
   


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Sure?


Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by Weide

Despite my grizzled good looks, I believe I am more entertaining as a jolly pale fat man than a grinning mount above the fireplace.
P.S. Please don't shoot me.
 
It sounds like the answer t your problem it is to get a handgun and a CPL so you can shoot back!
 
For the record, how well armed I am in the wilderness is directly related to how big of a pain in the ass it is to have with me. In the woods I see guns as non essential gear. If it is easy to bring along great, but if not it can stay at home; and if milk jugs full of water are going to be present I will move heaven and earth to bring my gats! I have been fishing in big brown bear country and never felt uncomfortable unarmed, and I have always found snakes and other creepy crawlies easy enough to avoid. I guess I just trust animal behavior more than human behavior.
 
I am back working weekends, so I didn't miss any boating by talking guns!
 
Kyle


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I smell bacon


Posted By: JoesKayak
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 12:47pm
Yes it's true. Guns don't belong in kayaks.

However, I am getting a .50 caliber machine gun mounted to the expedition frame for my raft. Or maybe a gatling gun just like John Wayne and Katherine Hepburn had.




Posted By: up4air
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 4:55pm
Do I hear banjo music?

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More water, please.



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