Howdy people. I'm trying to get as much information on Cooper River and China Gorge as possilbe. I've read the river pages on PP and American Whitewater, but maybe I can hear from some of ya'll about your favorite flows and experiences. I'll be up there next Saturday scouting as much as I can and researching the put ins and take outs.

The cooper road is snowed in still. It rarely gets it's first runs until sometime in June. Another thing to remember is that the cooper flows into the Cle Elum which then winds down some class II into the resevoir. The gauge for these runs is basically the inflow of the cle elum into that resevoir. That means the gauge represents both of these runs. So when people say that the cooper is good to go at 1500 cfs that is actually the amount of water coming in from both runs. That means that 1500 late season can be very very different from 1500 early season.

The cle elum does get run earlier in the year than the cooper because it's drainage area is lower and one valley to the east of the cooper, which means it produces melt much quicker than the cooper which is higher in the pass. VERY Rarely do both runs get done in the same weekend, mainly because if the Cle Elum is in the cooper is going to be really high and if the cooper is at a good flow the Cle Elum is going to be low. The cooper does go pretty well at higher flows but the run changes from that playground feel to a more rowdy creek run. So for paddlers just getting their boof on it might be best to wait. Also S-Turn gets a pretty burly hole at the base at higher flows.

Both are certainly quality runs that deserve attention for any paddlers in the area.
Here is a good link to road conditions up there. Keep in mind they don't update it as quick as you might get word from locals. http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/okawen/alerts-notices/?cid=stelprdb5308177

I drove up there last wednesday to check it out. Road for the cle elum is free of snow. Cooper is still snowed in. The play spots are lookin nice with this flow though.

Fenix: Did you drive all the way up to Triple Drop?

That is a good ways up the Cle Elum River road, just curious because I am sure it is clear to Davis Bridge but the major elevation is after that.

Just an FYI, since it is the first run of the year be on your toes with wood. Last year the Canyon pinch (sturn) on the Cle Elum had wood in it and it did cause a bit of mayhem.

No I didn't drive much past the bridge for the cooper but I wouldn't think there is snow blocking your way to the put in for china gorge, maybe there is, I don't know for sure. There is still snow on the sides of the road but not too much. Here is a visual, first feature below the bridge.

Keep an eye on the weather reports if you head up soon. There is up to a foot of new snow forecast for the Mts in the next day or 2.

By-the-way, thanks for all the input ya'll. I'm reading everything and taking it all into consideration. I haven't ruled out running China Gorge. But there's a number of factors for me to consider and I'll be doing that throughout the week.

China gorge usually has wood in S turn and is woody in general FYI...  why not wait till everyone else starts running it when it's hot and sunny !!!  Cooper will be in a lot when you don't have to deal with snow and you can camp and wear your board shorts and sunglasses.....  watch for posts here... there are usually pilgramages there with masses of kayakers when its in and sunny. you should  have no problem finding a crew who knows the run so you don't have to scout for put ins and take outs.....

Dont forget the wave just downstream around the next bend

Awesome wave with eddy service. Had my first surf there.

Actually that wave is lookin sweet at that flow.

the last couple years, china gorge has been in for more than a month after the road clears, which typically happens around the first weekend of june.

in warmer years, it is not unusual to only be able to catch china gorge at a good flow for 1-2 weeks due to road conditions. again, look for possibly memorial day weekend or the first part of june.

i have paddled china gorge 5 times in the last 2 years at <2500 cfs. 1700 is a minimum to have decent coverage but goes lower. not sure what it's like at higher flows, stompy i'm guessing.

note this run is notorious for wood issues.

most people wouldn't agree because it's not a "playground" as james says (ala cooper/ cc lewis), but in my opinion, it's the best Class IV creek around. committing, beautiful, and continuous, with one solid, portageable class v at the get-in and one mandatory class v- in the middle.

8 miles of almost constant whitewater. me and a buddy put in a lap last year in under 1.5 hours (one wood portage). good, good stuff, and the mandatory class v rapid KEEPS THE CROWDS AWAY

i'd be interested to hear other peoples opinions about the best class iv creek around, leaving out the cooper and cc lewis, which are known entities...

Edited by chipmaney - 01 May 2012 at 5:06am

And that would be a god plan. Icicle is high quality like the Green....but better. Should be at a good flow on Friday.

Yeah, Ici is road scoutable. I suggest you get straight on the three segments: Upper, Middle (includes Ricochete, Horseshoe & Plunge), and the Lower.

Flows depending, focus on the Upper and Lower first to get Icicle's general personality dialed before doing the middle. PPeeps Elf their way down the middle, but as a general rule Icicle is better w/ some water in it.

Scouting from the road in street clothes a little ain't a bad idea for your initial visit, IMO, so front load your schedule for that.