making sense of the SNOTEL
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Category: General
Forum Name: Chit Chat
Forum Discription: Non Boating Related Discussions
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9366
Printed Date: 19 Sep 2025 at 1:40pm
Topic: making sense of the SNOTEL
Posted By: Jed Hawkes
Subject: making sense of the SNOTEL
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 5:28pm
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Browsing the wonderful NWRFC site I clicked on the Snow link and started looking at the SNOTEL data. Does anyone know which station is for the Mt. Adams, and more specifically the glacier that feeds the White salmon river? It looks like there are several collecting stations on Adams, so I was hoping someone could explain this a bit more for me.
http://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/snow/snow.cgi ------------- The line will become apparent 978-273-7723 |
Replies:
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 7:01pm
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what he said. I am also trying to figure this out. I gotta say: Nate H. thinks that by June the W.S. is going to be in the lower 2's on the foot gauge (or something like that- not quoting him directly and his comment was off the cuff)
That's just his guess of course, however knowedgable and educated it may be.
I was talking to another boater who lives at Trout Lake who also expressed a shockingly negative outlook for the W.S. season. And I thought it was at least slightly more immune to El Nino than the rest of the Cascades. These guys don't seem to think so.
More data please... ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: peteg
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 9:24pm
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WS isn't immune from El Nino at all. That's something sold by the rafting companies. Look at flows for 2001 is my best guess for what the summer will be like. I think it was below 1' by August. pete |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 9:26pm
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There is no Mount Adams Station. Here are the stations which are close: Potato Hill: http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/nwcc/site?sitenum=702&state=wa - http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/nwcc/site?sitenum=702&state=wa Surprise Lake: http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/nwcc/site?sitenum=804&state=wa - http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/nwcc/site?sitenum=804&state=wa These web pages have current and historical data for the sites. The most relevant graph is the "daily" "snow water equivalent". Here it is for the Surprise Lake station: As you can see - its not that bad. You can also get basin wide snowpack reports here: http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/cgibin/snow_rpt.pl?state=washington - http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/cgibin/snow_rpt.pl?state=washington - /cgibin/snow_rpt.pl?state=washington Also, a basin-wide map for the columbia basin: http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/support/snow/snowpack_maps/columbia_river/wy2010/cusnow1003.gif - http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/ftpref/support/snow/snowpack_maps/columbia_river/wy2010/cusnow1003.gif Good data here, too: http:///www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/snow/snotel-wereports.html - http:///www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/snow/snotel-wereports.html So, bottom line. Mount adams has an average snowpack. Better off than the rest of the state (other than north cascades and the OP). ------------- |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 9:29pm
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Ok I don't know why the graph I posted isn't shown. James took away my edit capabilities, as he is the site nazi, and punishes people who don't fall into line. That said, here goes again: ------------- |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 9:30pm
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http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/cgibin/ploticus/plot.pl?cgi=1&-debug&-png&TITLE=SURPRISE%20LAKES&FILE=/ftp/data/cache/wygraph-multi/21c13s.out&WATERYEAR=2010&wy.line.multi.plt
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Posted By: SupaSta
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 9:47pm
Your link doesn't work either  ------------- Life is short, paddle hard! |
Posted By: Jed Hawkes
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 10:14pm
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Thanks for the insight Leif. I have a feeling that things aren't going to be as bad as everyone wants to make it, but I'm hoping that I can find data that will speak for its self. ------------- The line will become apparent 978-273-7723 |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 10:17pm
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Note on the basin wide map (link in the first post), the white salmon area shows green, meaning 90-109%.
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Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2010 at 11:41pm
| There's a lot less snow on Hwy 2 than I've seen in many years, and I've never seen the Deception Falls parking area snow free. |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 4:19pm
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yeah, I remember when you posted that gargantuan map of snowpack-while it seemed to take forever to load, it did reveal the Mt. Adams area and it didn't look all that bad-- on par with the higher, innermost core of the OP and the N.W, Cascades as you said.
Thanks for the links, Leif.  ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: WA-Boater
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 7:08pm
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Here is the site I generally use. ftp://ftp.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/data/snow/update/wa.txt I'm not sure if this is one of Leafs links or not, however, it has proved to be accurate and simple for me over the years. For example Brett - Stevens Pass is at 64% (snow water equivalent) whereas the entire basin feeding the Wenatchee is at 78%. And you can see, Stevens is a pretty small contributor to the Wenatchee's water supply. And for the WS. The potato hill (106%) and suprise lakes (94%) are doing well above the lower columbia basin (79%). We have a lot of high elevation snow. The snow below 4000' (stevens pass) has melted a lot due to the warm weather while the upper level snow has been effected less. Another place people often get confused (or the media uses misleading info) is the difference between snow depth (see http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/sew/get.php?wfo=sew&pil=CLI&sid=SNO ) and snow water equivalent. Often times it will rain at a certain elevation and compact/consolidate the snow. The overall depth of the snow is significantly less, however it is holding more water. What happens next is the most important thing for the snow pack. If the rain is followed by warm temperature and more rain is all gets flushed down the rivers. If it gets cold afterwards (like this year after October ended) the rain actually helps increase the snow water equivalent (sponge effect). We have not had any real flood events since Oct/early Nov. Most of the snow that has come since is still up there. Hence we have not has good levels for a while. Another thing to note. If you look at the numbers on the far right it shows the avg precipitation. For the most part, the numbers are pretty similar (snow pack vs precip). The site gets updated every day. It will be neat to see where it is at say next Monday......( http://forecast.weather.gov/wwamap/wwatxtget.php?cwa=sew&wwa=winter%20storm%20watch )Winter Storm watch in effect with another 1-2 feet of snow (Fri-Sat) on top of the 2-3 feet we got Sun-Tue. I bet the Wenatchee snow pack is at 85% by next weekend. ------------- |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 7:17pm
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The links I gave are for snow water data, but are easier to cosume than the ftp site.
Darren, how about a good faith effort to spell my name right. Not like it isn't on this page several times. ------------- |
Posted By: Jed Hawkes
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 7:19pm
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Thanks WA. Your explanation of the snow water equivalent cleared up a lot of things for me. ------------- The line will become apparent 978-273-7723 |
Posted By: WA-Boater
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 7:25pm
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Oh, that wasn't an accident Leif. I wanted to see not only if you'd notice, but how quick you'd reply. 9 minutes, not bad. With all due respect, I will do my best to spell it correctly in the future. Sorry. ------------- |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 7:59pm
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Thanks, Darren.
I should point out that California got all the snow this year. Who wants to road trip down there this spring? ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2010 at 2:29pm
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2010 at 2:31pm
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Wierd ... http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/nwcc/site?sitenum=702&state=wa Originally posted by leifkirchoff Ok I don't know why the graph I posted isn't shown. James took away my edit capabilities, as he is the site nazi, and punishes people who don't fall into line. I was going to add that 2005 looked much worse than any recent year. |
Posted By: huckin harms
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2010 at 7:24pm
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funny stuff hidden in here.... we laughed good. thanks for those laughs! ------------- |
Posted By: Jed Hawkes
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2010 at 7:26pm
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I must not have gotten it. ------------- The line will become apparent 978-273-7723 |