Using Stuart Smith's rating system in Canada.
Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6229
Printed Date: 16 Sep 2025 at 11:52pm
Topic: Using Stuart Smith's rating system in Canada.
Posted By: Fisher
Subject: Using Stuart Smith's rating system in Canada.
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2008 at 10:36am
|
Hello. For those familiar with Canadian rivers and Stuart Smith's guidebooks, I have a question regarding his rating system. I have not paddled in Canada so
have no point of reference. In the US guide books I’m familiar with, the rivers/creeks seem to be rated based on what the bulk of their most difficult whitewater is. For example, if a run contains thirty class 4 rapids and ten class 3's, the rating would be "Class 4". If the run had thirty class 4 rapids but only a small hand full of portageable 5’s, its rating might be class 4 with 5 in parenthesis, like this: “Class 4 (5)”. As someone not familiar with that latter run, they’d know, from a quick glance that they’d need to be able to paddle class 4 and willing to portage the small hand full of 5’s. With Smith’s ratings however, even though I can appreciate what he’s trying to do, I’m left scratching my head. As an example, Smith might rate something like this: “Grade 2-3” and “Class 1-6+” and then in the description, describe a number of "grade 4,5 & 6 drops ![]("http://kayakwest.com/smf/Smileys/default/huh.gif") . That's a lot of
numbers to process. I’m sure one could easily enough figure out Smith’s system by simply testing the waters so-to-speak but not everyone outside Canada has that luxury when planning a trip on a tight schedule. Could someone offer some insight on Smiths rating system? His guides seem excellent otherwise and it's obvious he put forth an extreme amount of effort putting them together. I'm just confused Thanks. |
Replies:
Posted By: erikSANDSTROM
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2008 at 12:37pm
|
Stewart ruined my awesome campfire. Poo on his head. ------------- This river don't go to Aintry. You done taken a wrong turn. |
Posted By: justin
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2008 at 12:41pm
| Where in B.C. are you planning to go? I could maybe give you some Beta. |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2008 at 12:48pm
|
Oh no ... not another BC river rating rant.... lol... Just add a level of difficulty to any description and you should be a little more accurate.
------------- |
Posted By: huckin harms
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2008 at 2:05pm
|
Fisher
are u sure your not just trying to stir the fire up some. seems awful suspicious... ------------- |
Posted By: Fisher
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2008 at 4:02pm
|
Sorry if my post seems suspicious. I'm not trying to stir up any thing. It was just an honest question. I got one of Smith's books from a friend and the first thing I noticed was the unconventional rating system. Thought I'd ask over on a Canadian forum but got no response so found this forum and thought I'd give it a shot. I'd just add a level of difficulty to the descriptions like James suggested but a typical Smith classification looks like this ["class 1-6+"] instead of this ["class 3" or "class 4" or "class 5"]. What the hell does 1-6+ mean?? ![]("smileys/smiley5.gif") Anyhoo, I'm a self-contained enthusiast and noticed a lot of camping runs that sound cool such as the Beaver, S Ram, Cline, Brazeau, Athabasca, Rocky, etc, etc. But I'm not sure what to make of the rating system and don't want to drag a class 3 buddy into the Canook bush only to find out what Smith meant to say was a class 5 run. When Smith says "grade 3-4, class 1-6+", does this mean a class 3-4 paddler can do the trip with a few portages around harder drops?? |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2008 at 4:11pm
|
Here is what I would say off hand. If smith gives a general rating that seems in a certain range. Bump it up a notch, ie smith Class III = Class IV If you get a river that says III(V) you can count on something like a class IV run with some monster rapid in the middle. In my experience the ()'s indicate something that is out of the ordinary on the run or something that is much more difficult than the other rapids. It does not have anything to do with portageability or scoutability. In fact I would not trust a single person but yourself or your trusted sources for that Beta in BC. Things change up there alot, and even if things have not changed you can count on locals baiting your ass into a wild experience. Of course only because they care ... right... Look at the runs on maps, try and pick out the gradient... Part of the fun of planning your trip is taking the steps of pre-exploration preparation and although beta and others experiences should be a source of information it should be the least trusted source. Use your maps, gauges, and other concrete information before trusting a Trip Reports or personal accounts. Just my 2 centalo's ------------- |
Posted By: huckin harms
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2008 at 7:47am
|
Fisher,
don't mean to question your authenticity, it's just that an entire post was dedicated a while back to this question of differences in the ratings b/w "here and there". anyways, seems James has pretty well touched on the point. some folks suggest that mr smith is in the habit of unintentionally sandbagging the ratings. oh well, there is another guide book out there that deals with runs in the sw bc region that are NOT class V. Unfortunately, this removes most of the classics from the list.
------------- |
Posted By: Fisher
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2008 at 8:10am
|
Thanks, guys. I'm still not clear on this though. With the books I'm familiar with here in the western US, rivers are rated by classes, ie, Little White = CLASS 5-5+ in Bennett's book. Smith however lists a "GRADE" and a "CLASS". Which one do you use to decide a minimum skill level to do the run, "grade"? I'll search for that other thread and hopefully gain some insight there too. Thanks. |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2008 at 9:22am
|
One thing that I did not mention that I could is that BC is also a bit more involved with the access and portaging/moving off river. I have only begun to get my feet wet up there and I have already started a list of fun stories about portages, hike outs and ins... Enjoy it ... your in for a treat! Oh and I have no idea about the grade/class it has been a discussion around hear that different people call things a grade instead of class and then there is the discussion about using a grade system within classes. But using them in conjunction to describe different features is past me.... I have never heard such a thing... I have also never boated with smith or had him stamp out my campfire so I can't say much there.... I do like camp fires though!!!! ------------- |
Posted By: fiddleyak
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2008 at 11:41am
|
Originally posted by Fisher I’m sure one could easily enough figure out Smith’s system by simply testing the waters so-to-speak but not everyone outside Canada has that luxury when planning a trip on a tight schedule. From what you have described of how Stuart describes difficulty, and what I have heard about the trustworthiness of Stuart's river beta, I would be very hesitant to put on to any river if the only information I had was what was in his book. Like others said, look for as much outside information on the runs as possible: other guide books, blogs, topos etc. I don't know what region Stuart's guidebook describes, but since he claims 1s D's in BC I assume runs there are in the book (there is a "decent" amount of BC river beta online). If you can compare the accepted ratings of known runs with Stuarts assessments, you should get a better idea of how his rating system work. The best way to really understand how he rates river is if you can compare your experience on the river with his description...but that means you have to run it. Sort of a Catch-22. Maybe this means -even if you're on a "tight schedule"- that you should start with some of easiest runs so that you don't get in over your head. Finally, my experience with BC kayaking (and everywhere else) is that word of mouth beta from people that you trust is the most valuable. Good luck figuring out that guidebook, that rating system sounds ridiculous! |
Posted By: slickhorn
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2008 at 1:23pm
|
take the BC ratings with a serious grain of salt. I think you're getting the consensus opinion that Stu smith sandbags significantly. I guess we all would if we soloed gnarly V creeks, eh? lol Claudia Schwab's recent book is a more useable book for the recreational paddler, and rates things a bit more in line with general US ratings. If you buy into the CA class III = Idaho class IV = Washington class V, then expect the difference between BC and WA ratings to be > 1 class. It's a bigger difference than the difference between ID/WA ratings. There's an even older set of guidebooks by Betty-Pratt Johnson that interesting simply for their age/perspective. These guidebooks are rated similar to bennet, maybe a half class more cautious than bennet. I would second the advice to not drop in trusting only a smith rating. ------------- |
Posted By: Ellingferd
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2008 at 2:15pm
| I have used stuarts book for a few runs in eastern bc. what i can say is add a rating in most circumstances, beware of levels, and know that if he says the run is 10 miles automatically add at least 2 onto that number. |
Posted By: Christian
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2008 at 1:10pm
|
"Claudia Schwab's recent book is a more useable book for the
recreational paddler, and rates things a bit more in line with general
US ratings. " Concur - check it out at http://www.wetcoastpublishing.com and / or http://www3.telus.net/cschwab/paddlepage/ Christian |
Posted By: RPMMAX
Date Posted: 30 Jan 2008 at 7:55pm
|
1to6+ means that are 1's, 2's 3's 4's 5's and6+'s.
Since he didn't put 6 in ( ) I'd assume that theres more than one. I read the description of the Brazeau in which he mentions at least 4 or 5 class 5-5+ DROPS. The grade he denotes relates the over all river. Most of the way its III-III+, however there may be a few hard drops throughtout excepting the class V. If you take a class III boater he should be prepared to portage. Gradient with volume can also help you read between the lines. At high water you may go too far into a rapid, where portaging in not a pleasant option. ![]("smileys/smiley3.gif") ------------- RPMMAX |