Suggestion for a Roll Clinic
Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: The Class Room
Forum Name: Open Forum
Forum Discription: Discuss and Share your expertise on products or technique
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5617
Printed Date: 23 Jun 2025 at 6:48am
Topic: Suggestion for a Roll Clinic
Posted By: Otter Boy
Subject: Suggestion for a Roll Clinic
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2007 at 10:53pm
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Ok, it's official. My roll sucks. I had my second swim of the season in a class III section of the Nahatlatch. I've gotten by for years on willpower and shoulder strength, but that is suboptimal. How about a Professor Paddle rolling clinic? I can't be the only one in this situation, and with the water mostly gone the timing is good.
There are a lot of options for location - the Split Rock takeout on the Skykomish, any park on Lake Washington, Idlewild Park on Lake Sammamish (close to my place for a BBQ afterwards). If there is sufficient interest I'll drive the project.
- B
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Replies:
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2007 at 10:57pm
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I like it. Mine has been off and on. I'll bring cookies...
------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: justasec
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 12:15am
| I WANT TO LEARN BACK-DECK AND HAND ROLLS.......... WHEN YA THINKIN ABOUT GETTING THIS PARTY STARTED?......SYDNEY |
Posted By: STLboater
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 12:42am
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Maybe I can organize a roll clinic at the univ. of puget sound
------------- Kayak Academy Whitewater Instructor |
Posted By: justin
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 8:40am
| It's all in the hips, is what I realized this year. |
Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 9:35am
Bryon, it would be a good idea to practice your hand roll too!!! ![]("smileys/smiley36.gif") I may join a roll clinic. We could make it a flatwater clinic too. A flatwater session usually turns into a roll clinic anyways. |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 9:39am
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Gene Coulon !
------------- |
Posted By: tradguy2
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 9:45am
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Last I saw, Gene Coulon was cosed to swimming due to too much goose poop. If you go there, paddle out a bit before flipping. ------------- ... preparing for a river beating! |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:15am
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Flatwater stuff would be veryyynice. ------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:18am
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Screw Gene Coulon, Drive the extra 10 minutes and get into some crystal clear water at the house of power!
------------- Nomad |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:18am
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eewww... what about Sammamish or Meridian?
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Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:19am
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I don't mean to sound mean? I just prefer practice at a clean river and not a polluted lake.
------------- Nomad |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:20am
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Hey its live posting! ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:22am
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Lake WA at SRK is always nice too.... and it's by my house. |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:23am
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I guess I like the power house because its only a 20 min drive from my house.
------------- Nomad |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:24am
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I'm heading up there right now if anyone wants to join, Ill be there around 11:30am
------------- Nomad |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:26am
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Originally posted by Ryan Lake WA at SRK is always nice too.... and it's by my house. SRK is gooooooooooood. ------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:27am
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SRK is a 35 min drive from my place.
------------- Nomad |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:28am
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Don't you work anymore?
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Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:29am
Dude. I work there, and it takes me 30 minutes. Stop whining abooot it. ![]("smileys/smiley17.gif")
------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:31am
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I'm on vacation! till the 4th ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:32am
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Let's do this Thursday night. SRK at 7?? |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:34am
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Nooo. Next week when there aren't any skill sessions at night, so I can actually make it. Plus, Thursday night is Ladies Night at SRK and you'll have a bunch of chicks in sea kayaks running you over. It's happened before... How about next Thursday?
------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:35am
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How do you get young chickens to paddle? How do they hold the paddles? with their beaks?
------------- Nomad |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:37am
Dude. ![]("smileys/smiley22.gif") ------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:37am
![]("smileys/smiley5.gif") ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:38am
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nooo not SRK either... How about the Arboretum and then we could play freaking Kayak polo afterwards. UW vs PP oh ... a challenge that would be! ------------- |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:39am
![]("smileys/smiley10.gif") Isn't the water relatively disgusting down there.... ------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:40am
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I still want to see Chickens that paddle. Get it, Sea chickens......hahahaah
------------- Nomad |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:42am
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yea but who really cares ... Its not like were in the womb or anything. All the growths I am going to get are done growing. J Oh crap ... I didn't just say that.... Joel is starting to itch.... ------------- |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 10:42am
![]("smileys/smiley11.gif") ------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Jeff
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 3:37pm
I vote for Powerhouse, and I'm willing to help anyone who want to learn the back deck hand roll! I still can't quite get it off side though. I'm thinking of heading there Thurs. night 'round 5:30. Quick run down from the falls and there are still plenty of deep calm spots to practice. Having a good handroll is really important, espescially if you happen to say, break your paddle 20 min. into the Nahatlatch play run and don't want to walk out. That was sweet with hand paddles! ![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley41.gif")
They call me "Clutch Rollingsworth".. (Thanks Erik!) ------------- "What could possibly go wrong?" www.flickr.com/photos/jeffdwyer/ |
Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 6:15pm
| So, Powerhouse or UW? I'm up for either. |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2007 at 8:29pm
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If you guys want I can give you some pointers at SRK Tues after work. I have a project going about 15 min from there. We can work on rolling, flatwater, handrolls, whatever. There's a dock you can seal launch from and turn it into a loop. I looped the Mega Rocker that way! PM me and if there are more than 3 I'm there. ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: LuckyLiam
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2007 at 12:44pm
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I take an occassional flatwater lunch breaks midweek in eastside lake WA. Usually Marsh park if anyone is interested in joining. I can't just reneg on myself if meeting someone.
Otter, your a softie right?
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Posted By: Otter Boy
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2007 at 1:20pm
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Yes, I serve the Hive Mind. |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2007 at 1:30pm
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Funny cuz I serve the Bee Hind!
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Posted By: LuckyLiam
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2007 at 3:56pm
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I noticed you're always out front on probe duty |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2007 at 3:58pm
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Originally posted by Otter Boy Yes, I serve the Hive Mind. ![]("smileys/smiley33.gif") ------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Wog67
Date Posted: 30 Aug 2007 at 5:46pm
I am always up for rolling practice.. although some days I think I should be doing swim practice.... ![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley42.gif") ------------- Flip, rinse, repeat. |
Posted By: Chuck e fresh
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 12:09am
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How many paddler's does it take to roll right ..... ??? give up.... me too !!! Head down biatch. ------------- There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!! |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 7:25am
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So... I had my own little roll session on Lake WA the other night. I think I discovered my problem. I think its the paddle. For those of you who haven't seen me on the river, I have a Fluid paddle, funky shaped blades, carbon fiber, etc. I was out on the lake in a Star, which is normally the same, or harder to roll than my 2Fun, and I was using a AT2 Flexi. The rolls were coming like nothing. AND. For the first time in my LIFE. I got about ten offside rolls, and a couple offside backdeck rolls. No one ever helped me figure that one out. I just flipped and set up and apparently, I know how to do it. ------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: justin
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 7:37am
| Does that mean your thinking of switching paddles? I've always thought your paddle looked sweet. |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 7:58am
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I love my paddle!! But... If its a problem... ITS OUT. I'm taking both to Idaho this weekend, gonna test my theory on some real water. But if thats the problem, yeah, the good ol Fluid will be goin' up fo sale.
------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: arnobarno
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 8:44am
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Ashley, Bet you $1 it isn't your paddle?? IMHO, more likely it is your wrist position and the blade position - which may need to be different for your offside roll depending on feather angle between the two paddles. Is the leading blade flat/neutral on the surface? Effortless rolls are done with the blade angle neutral throughout the roll. A climbing blade angle causes many people to muscle their rolls (me included when I don't set up properly). One thing that was helpful for Deborah and I was to film each other while we were rolling. You can playback the movie and see what you are doing right or wrong. Perhaps at the next roll session, someone can film you. my two cents, arn ------------- arn9schaeffer@gmail.com (remove 9 for my real email address) |
Posted By: huckin harms
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 8:48am
| this is all so ... funny |
Posted By: LuckyLiam
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 9:06am
| yeah, time to roll another one. |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 9:07am
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Arn- I've been playing around with my roll for ages. Tweaking my hand positions, etc. But when you flip in the middle of a rapid, you don't really have time to be adjusting all sorts of little things. I've always liked the bent shaft, because I know exactly where my blades are, because I can feel if my hands are off, so I don't think its that. I haven't changed hand positions, like, ever. The AT has much longer blades than my Fluid, which I think help me out quite a bit. Bracing was 10 times easier as well.... Like I said, I'm going to test it this weekend. Are you saying my roll sucks?! ![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif") ------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 9:07am
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Arno! your still out there! How about a low water sky run this weekend? ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: arnobarno
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 9:48am
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Ashley, I'm definitely NOT saying your roll sucks. I've seen you pull off some combat rolls to save yourself from Chris' Crack, among other nasty places. As I said before, you had lots of grace under pressure. Still, I'd be surprised if it was the paddle itself vs. where the paddles ended up setup. That is to say that if you keep your hands the same but one paddle is working and the other isn't, it sounds like your hand position is correct for one paddle but not the other. It would be interesting (at least to me, hopefully to you) to have someone look at the blade position at the start of your offside roll with each paddle. Dave - I'm afraid of scratching my boat with the Sky that low! Maybe some rain will bring it up this week - I'm dying to get out on the water (and, no, Last Nasty is not in my near future). Besides, I know that who you really want to see out there is the cookie fairy!arn ------------- arn9schaeffer@gmail.com (remove 9 for my real email address) |
Posted By: Otter Boy
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 10:18am
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There seems to be some interest for this. I'll look into options, but I'm inclinced to bring in someone with teaching experience. This will be a session for people who have rolls, but need some work. There will probably be a nominal cost, we'll see how that affects interest |
Posted By: tradguy2
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 10:27am
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you have not seen it check out EJ's Rolling and Bracing video. I watched that 20 times and pick up something new everytime. The stokes and concepts video is even better.
If the cookie fairy attends, the odds of me attending will defintely improve! ------------- ... preparing for a river beating! |
Posted By: Otter Boy
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 10:35am
| Good idea, but the problem is that videos just don't work for some people (like me). It's all about repetition and muscle memory. I can watch a video 100 times and not get it. |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 10:37am
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Mmmmmmmm.......Cookies!!!!!!!!! ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: tradguy2
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 11:29am
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Don't worry Bryan, I'm not advocating videos as a sole means for learning how to paddle. I just believe that practice is of limited value unless you are practicing the moves correctly (nothing worse than muscle memory in the form of a bad habit). Whether you learn the correct way from a video, a freind, or an instructor is not important, just as long as you learn it. The video worked well for me (which is surprising because I generally do not learn much from them) but I don't mean to suggest it will for everyone.
------------- ... preparing for a river beating! |
Posted By: tradguy2
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 11:30am
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Oh yeah, mmmmm cookies! ------------- ... preparing for a river beating! |
Posted By: SupaSta
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 1:02pm
OK, I could definitely use this too. Unfortunately, school work and my son are burning up all my free time. ![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif")
If we can do it at the Power House or Lake Sammamish or somewhere near Redmond on a weekend, I'll be there.
![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley16.gif") Dan ------------- Life is short, paddle hard! |
Posted By: cloudpeak
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 2:26pm
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I'm a fan of the Power House for roll practice. IMO, it's the best swimming pool around, clean water, a couple of deep eddies, and a little bit of moving current.
Also, I agree with tradguy. EJ's Rolling and Bracing DVD and his Stokes and Concepts DVD rock. |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 2:44pm
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Me like Powerhouse and COOKIES!!!!!! We should combine them both. (ARNO and DEB)
------------- Nomad |
Posted By: arnobarno
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 3:06pm
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We are always up for some roll practice on the water. I am also a fan of videos for learning though we are partial to the Kent Ford "Kayak Roll" video. Lots of good tips for debugging your roll that are much more helpful than "keep your head down!" I'm a big believe also in two other helpful things: 1) Having yourself videotaped. This way you can actually see what you are doing so that it helps you understand what your aren't doing correctly. I'm happy to bring my camera to one of these sessions if it would be helpful. 2) Doing drills that force you into awkward positions to stimulate combat better. Two in particular that I like - (a) Just stay under water and wait 15 seconds before setting up. (b) Even better, do some type of discombobulator drill. We just learned a new one of these from Eli (lazuruslong1108) a couple of weeks ago. Face forward and hold the paddle behind your back. Fall over, reposition as necessary and roll up. A simpler discombobulator is simply to roll over on one side and pass the paddle over the surface to the other side and roll up. I think Deborah could probably be talked into making cookies for such an event. arn ------------- arn9schaeffer@gmail.com (remove 9 for my real email address) |
Posted By: Patty
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 7:06pm
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I am also interested - I do have a roll but not consistent. Would like to have more practice in moving water. Just let me know. Thanks,
Patty ------------- Patty |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 31 Aug 2007 at 11:46pm
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Brett might have forgotten in his suggestion about Tuesday... or maybe he meant to invite everyone, which would be awesome... There's a potluck n paddle at SRK this Tues 9/4 so if you're coming out to work on your roll, bring some refreshments for apres-paddlin'. I hear Ashley's down for her world famous cookies. Check our blog for the recipe, as requested by the chickens on ladies night. btw Dave I too wonder how they hold the paddles in their little beaks but I know enough to stay away. It's a mystery...
Golly I digress.
![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif") Anyway Tom Patterson may be there (OK he's a sea kayaker but you guys can still talk nice to him) with his mini vid camera which gives an awesome full view of torso position & rotation during the roll. Check some of his vids from our clinic nights at:
------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 02 Sep 2007 at 11:50am
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I would love to help out but the fact that I'm in Colorado for four months makes it tough.
I would recomend that anyone having issues take Brett's offer. He is a great paddler and a great dude and SRK rocks. |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2007 at 1:11am
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Ok, ok. The cookies will be there.
------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: FLUID
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2007 at 12:23pm
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I'm going to have to agree with arno. your paddle has nothing to do with your roll. the roll is all technuiqe. if done properly with your "BODY" you can roll with your hands. if it's not your set up position your eather lifting your head or more common punching out the non sweaping hand which makes the blade angle dive. work on rolling with your body ...................... good luck !
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Posted By: James
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2007 at 12:46pm
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I might believe in the Placebo Paddle effect also, which states: those who think they perform better with a certain paddle, do regardless of the actual design benefits or differences. The mind is a powerful thing... I am still looking for my "Paddle of Destiny"! ------------- |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2007 at 12:57pm
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I know, Arn. I was just kidding around. Tests this weekend have proven
that the AT is soon to be bought. It might have something to do with
the foam core blades, and might have something to do with the fact that
it is a non angled bent shaft, vs my 15 degree bent shaft.
------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2007 at 1:40pm
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Yeah, the paddle placebo. Like Dumbo's feather. Pleeeease tell me you know what I'm talking about. ------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 04 Sep 2007 at 1:47pm
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Originally posted by The Drunk Elephant Scene I can look at worms, and microscopic germs, but technicolor pachiderms are just too much for me! ------------- |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2007 at 6:56pm
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Again, if you guys want, I'm down for a tip session. Sky in the next weekend or 2? PM me if you want to get in on this and we will spend some time with the camera and whatever else people want to try.
ps i like corona and hefe ;) ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2007 at 7:37pm
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I will also be willing to come down but unlike brett ... I must be paid in raw Molybdenum to show up! ------------- |
Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2007 at 8:09pm
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This weekend sounds good. I have to stay local but would love to get in the boat for a few hours. Saturday at 10:00am? |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2007 at 8:52pm
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Split Rock it is... ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2007 at 8:53pm
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419cfs??? .... ouch ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2007 at 8:55pm
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Tieton man ... Hit the run thats in the sun
------------- |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2007 at 9:04pm
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Tieton next weekend 9/15 = toga party, I am told... ------------- |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2007 at 9:39pm
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My paddle blades are almost worn to nothing and I am still in search of my paddle of destiny too! Whats the drunken elephant thing about James? ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2007 at 11:42pm
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OK Dave, it's not about drunken elephants, as James suggests... if you remember --- wrack yo brain, I know you remember --- Dumbo's feather was a placebo. He was told by his friend the mouse to hold it in his trunk and he'd be able to fly, but it was just a way to make him believe in himself. Lo and behold, when he dropped the feather... drum roll... he could still fly. Like your paddle. Your roll has nothing to do with what kind of paddle you use, unless you talk yourself into believing it does.
Someone once told me...
If you believe in yourself, and not in your stick
You can roll with anything, even a brick.
![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley10.gif") Such a lovely story. Nighty night...
![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley12.gif") ------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2007 at 12:41am
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wow william such a late post... You got it ... and that was my hidden response a quote from the movie if you will about the techni colored pachiderms. It was the wrong scene but a bunch of circus animals tripping in the off hours... how wild is that.. I just think it should be mentioned more often. ------------- |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2007 at 8:14pm
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OHHHHHHHHHH, I get it now! I can roll with a feather! Ummmm, doesn't' the feather get wet?. No, seriously though, after 17 years of boating my problem isn't' rolling, it's throwing down the boat and trying to learn the play moves! Someday I will buy a better playboat, damn that Tekno....
------------- Nomad |