power flip @ Lava
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Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11475
Printed Date: 27 Sep 2025 at 5:15am
Topic: power flip @ Lava
Posted By: water wacko
Subject: power flip @ Lava
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 1:14pm
Massive power flip at Lava on the Grand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0V_g0gGxaA&feature=player_embedded
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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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Replies:
Posted By: phil
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 1:58pm
That is so awesome.
Shoulda gone for the right line.
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Posted By: James
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 2:42pm
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I don't understand how this happens, they guys basically just drift into it... I mean why are they not even trying to go around it? .... weird.
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 3:48pm
Nice angle- (didn't even square up to it).
That's what you call Driftwood, my friend.
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🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 5:34pm
Although their runs sucked, if you haven't tried to line up on the left at Lava at good water like this then it's hard to understand just how hard it is to know where you are in relation to your chosen line.
1. The horizon line is bigger and scarier than anything most people are familiar with and you can't make out a damned thing until it's too late.
2. The markers are small and look different from the water than from the scout.
3. Keeping the boat sideways so you can move laterally is actually preferred practice, although these guys didn't straighten out at all as they dropped in.
4. Once you're locked into the current is is deceptively hard to change your line. You are usually committed long before you actually think you are (see point 1).
5. The cleanest lines, both left and right side, have you just sticking a side tube in that hole. Two feet off either way changes everything, and not for the better. And 2 feet on a tongue 150' wide, flowing at about 15mph, is a tougher call than you might think.
All that said, they did have very poor lines. That is a hole I've skirted both left and right a considerable number of times and I never, ever want to go into it.
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"I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake
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Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 5:37pm
And if you want to read about a really sucky day at Lava, check out this blog entry and scroll down to the Lava part. I think 6 out of 8 boats flipped on the trip described. My buddies were watching from the shore, chins on chests, having never been there before.
http://passion4adventure.blogspot.com/2011/07/carnage-fest-grand-canyon-short-trip.html
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"I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake
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Posted By: phil
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 6:01pm
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That sounds about right to me, Kyle. That's why I think they should have gone for the right line, it's way easier to line up IMO.
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Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 6:47pm
You're right Phil, lining up right is a bit easier unless you want to do the super slick dory run:
1. Left tube just right of the bubble line, maybe even between your oar blade and boat.
2. Drop into the pyramid that is the separation point between the ledge hole and the big lateral feeding right. Your left tube will be in the hole pretty much but the rest of the boat will be climbing up the big pyramid with a lot of momentum.
3. Miss the V-wave, barely to the left of it, or slide over the top of the left V (from the outside).
4. Run the bottom holes.
5. Celebrate on the ledges on river left just below Lower Lava, if all goes well.
Having worked there for many years, and still working there (again), I usually run left at levels much above 15k. Lower than that and it's right or dory slot described above. This is pretty typical for commercial oar powered trips where client safety is paramount. Sometimes you get the gung-ho-ers though and the right side wins out, even at higher water.
Actually, when I run right, I still line up just right of the bubble line, but about an oar length off. That way I tend to hit the V-waves dead center instead of mostly just the right one. Since the Prospect Canyon flash flood of '95 pushed more debris into the left side, the water is pushing farther right than it was previously and that right B is pretty mean. I've seen a number of boats start farther to the right and flip on it. I guess I'm getting conservative in my old age but I much prefer to be upright at the bottom.
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"I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 7:43pm
You're right Kyle- and it was a careless and hastey comment on my part.
It goes to show that critiquing people's lines via video in the comfort of one's home doesn't really do the process of river running justice.
From a video you can't really take in all the details that make up a rapid and the challenges it poses to a river runner, not to mention on a river so grand as that one. It's an entirely different animal than what Washington has to offer, for sure
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🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 8:20pm
Hey JP,
I didn't seem to sound as if I was hammering on you and James. You're both super strong boaters, super fun guys and know your sh*t.
I've simply run that rapid a bunch and know that line pretty well. It can be hard to tell if you're on line from the entrance, even from a raft seat, and that hole is scary, making it harder to concentrate on your approach for fear of being just a few feet too far right. This year I remember blurting out "oh sh*t" as I was dropping in, thinking I was going to eat the hole. We had a clean run as it turns out and the beers were sweet afterward!
And hey, if you didn't critique stuff I wouldn't pay attention to PP. I love reading your posts!
Hope to see you soon. I really miss the NW!
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"I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake
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Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2011 at 8:39pm
NW isn't the same without ya, Kyle. Saw Ammen the other day. Haven't seen him since you left. He looks good.
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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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Posted By: JoesKayak
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2011 at 9:03pm
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That flip (actually 5 flips)... was heinous! I actually felt sick to my stomach watching it. So completely violent.
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