Whitewater Forum: oh, not again
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oh, not again

Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10119
Printed Date: 20 Sep 2025 at 1:45pm


Topic: oh, not again
Posted By: up4air
Subject: oh, not again
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2010 at 7:05pm
http://www.dailymail.com/policebrfs/201010100398 - http://www.dailymail.com/policebrfs/201010100398


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More water, please.



Replies:
Posted By: SupaSta
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2010 at 2:10am
Oh man.  That sucks!
 
Condolences to friends and family :-(


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Life is short, paddle hard!


Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2010 at 1:14pm
yeah, it's a powerful river.
It seems to get sandbagged a lot "It's not class V, it's only class IV" ect.
And while a good clean line in a raft or kayak certainly has a class IV flavor, this is definitely a very ancient riverbed. An honest-to-God class V riverbed.
 
One of the video boaters that works for the same raft company I've been guiding for this season helped pull him out.
 
These incidents are sobering counterbalances to all of the highjinks we get into out there in our mirthful quest for fun. Namely at "Pillow Rock", where the incident occured (It isn't called "Camera rapid"). I've heard the rapid rated "Class Fun", and it is a lot of fun. Many people intentionally jump off of Pillow and have great recreational swims there. Me, Fish, and Pernick were each jumping off of it just a few weeks ago.
 
Hopefully fatalities remind us all to simulatneaously observe some strict protocols of safety and awareness while we are engaged in this liquid circus we love.
 
Yesterday I greeted a young boater at the bottom of "Lost Paddle". Didn't see his crew.
Got all the way down to "Sweet's Falls" and hung out for a very long time watching the whole show. Saw the same young boater come through. Didn't see his crew.
    Much later, when I got to the T.O. these guys were asking me if I saw a boater who they were supposedly paddling with. The description matched that of this solo boater I saw. "He's probably fine" I told them. after all, he made it through the last big rapid, "Sweet's Falls" just fine. What perplexed me is how or why they allowed themselves to get seperated from their bro all the way to the T.O.
 
Look, I just got my ass reamed by somebody because of the way I state my opinions about all of this bullsh*t. Fair enough. But it's a sincere response from me, how I process these events when they occur. Yeah, accidents can happen to the best of us, but accidents are often preventable as well. Can't say in this case. The details aren't available to disect.
 
And I know I am paddling in the shadow of the grim reaper as much as anyone else. I guess I just hope that by shoring up all of the little details (staying together and within sight of the members of your group, to name just one example) I can continue to enjoy these rivers in a safe way that doesn't sap all of the adventure out of it.
 
I'm not saying that separation or being left behind lead to this paddler's fate at all. Just that lots of different outcomes can unfold in surprisingly unique or familiar ways, and that, for me personally, minding any number of small details just may be the details that prevent tragedy from striking, if that makes any sense.
 
I don't know. I hope that the man spoken of in the article you linked to would be content to leave this world via the river. Being a veteran paddler, it's possible. Surely that doesn't provide much comfort to those close to him who now feel his loss. But for me personally I don't want to go out by way of a car crash, a murder, or cancer.
If the river tells me it's time to go, I'm cool with that.
 
The other thing that bums me out is the fact that Pillow is one of the two most busiest places on the river. There is nearly always at least a small throng of people at Pillow Rock. Boating through, hanging out on Pillow Rock proper, hanging out on R. Right taking photos, watching from the bank, ect. Most spectators tend to passively observe the carnage as it unfolds, to cheer, ect. So regardless of where this man's fellow boaters were at the time, there were plenty of people around.
 
It fell upon a video boater to take action and do something when (if not for his intervention) his obligatiions would have been to go catch up to the raft trip he was documenting. My helmet is off to you, Karl for doing something.
 
 
 


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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2010 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by slickhorn

It's hard sometimes to make the right call when so much of the culture is just "charge it brah!" 


 
yeah, heard that. certainly can't disect what happened in this particular case. it's not like I'm going to go up to the first responder and pry for him to recount the horrible situation he found himself in. maybe later after the intial horror of it wears off, we can learn more.
 
still helpful to be reminded that this sport has life and death consequences sometimes. Just sorry to have to be reminded this way.


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Posted By: Courtney
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2010 at 7:51am
Does anyone know his name yet?
 
Courtney


Posted By: Sisu
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2010 at 11:42am
His name was Mark Hanna and he was in his mid- 50's. He was paddling with some club out of Pennsylvania and had been running the Gauley for a number of years. Our group came down to Pillow about 10 minutes after it happened, and saw some guys coming down the trail with a backboard. We were meeting some friends who were there to take photos of us going through Pillow and they saw what happened to him, and waved us over before we hit the entrance.
Apparently he swam and ended up in the eddy on river right at the bottom. It is swirling and has some eddy lines but it is one of the main places you try to end up after a successful run. There is a slot between the rocks maybe 3 or 4 feet wide at the bottom of the eddy that no one I know has ever considered to be anything but an annoyance because if you are near there, it grabs your stern a bit when you try to exit the eddy.
He apparently went into the slot and got sucked into an undercut area at the back that no one ever really thought about. It is really odd because usually there are rafts and boats galore in that eddy and it would be hard to get in that slot if you tried. My friend that saw him swim said no one was paying it much mind at first because he was in the eddy, and then everybody started scrambling to try to reach him and pull him out. They got him out after about five minutes and sadly it was too late. There was an EMT that administered CPR without success.   Anyway, it was a fluke, but a fluke of the type that can occur in probably 100 places on the Gauley. I have done a low water run on it and there are undercuts all over the place. As Courtney has said, you really want to be in your boat.
Our group had a safe day, but this incident really reinforced our plan to stay close to each other and run conservative lines. We hiked up the Goat Trail to our car and saw the other members of Mark's group giving statements to the police, and the police doing an inventory of his car. Very sobering - we felt like it could have been any one of us.
That being said, the Upper Gauley is a magical place for me - a combination of classic whitewater, beautiful scenery and usually great weather during the fall releases. I am going to paddle it as long as I feel physically and mentally capable of doing so, always with reverence and joy for the experience, and respect for the risks posed by the power of this great river.


Posted By: irenen
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2010 at 3:27pm
This is what one of the people who boated with Mark on that day and was a friend of his had to say about what happened, it is worth a read - sounds like everything that could possibly have been done to get him out safely and to not be in danger in the first place was done and things turned out badly anyway, very sad.
http://boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1052219464/ -
 
http://boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1052219464/
 


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It's all fun and games until someone loses a paddle.


Posted By: Courtney
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2010 at 7:30am
Thanks Sisu and Irene.
 
Courtney


Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 19 Oct 2010 at 9:02pm
wow. Much more detailed account than what I've heard since. These details are important, and it's important to digest them, unpleasant though it is. It is an opportunity to learn from others' experiences. I'm grateful to the member of Mr. Hana's party for sharing those details. At least is is reassuring to know that people were on it.
 
I guess I really get bummed out by the mainstream media and the crude inexact way they report on these incidents. They don't help to inform. I mean, I know better than to seek info from the charelston newspaper. We can only learn from these events through first and maybe second hand accounts.
 
Out here we got some undercuts and a few caves behind waterfalls, but generally not rocks big enough to get stuffed underneath. But we do have that Wood everywhere, and it only takes a fluke mishap in a class II rapid for wood to become an issue. (R.I.P. Ryan Morgan- you were a good boater and a good dude)
 
A great thing to go back to:
Line of sight with as many contiguous members of your group as possible, as often as possible. Eyes in the back of your head HABITUALLY. Closer spacing. If the downstream most boat eddies out, you should too. Rather than just keep bobbing downstream ahead pf them and dissappearing around corners. Too much of that sh*t going on, especially around here. Again: not saying that's what went wrong for Mark, just that in the future being close and tight and watching your companions religiously (the way it sounds like Marty did--good on him for being jonny-on-the-spot) might save your friend's life someday, even while it couldn't save Mark's in that particular instance.
 
The other thing that is sobering: it is tempting to take CPR classes every 6 months, instead of every other year, just to have the confidence and ingrained memory to be able to perform it better and quicker without having to think about it...
 


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Posted By: irenen
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 1:45am
Good point JP, and a reminder that I haven't taken a CPR class for years - easy to forget about, but when you need it you really need it.

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It's all fun and games until someone loses a paddle.


Posted By: doggievacation
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2010 at 6:38am
There was some good discussion about CPR downthread on boatertalk.  I'm just going to cut and paste from Hanleyk1, to keep things short and sweet:


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With the recent upswing in popularity of "compressions only" CPR, I can't help but wonder if the rescuers were using traditional breaths and compressions red cross style CPR or AHA compressions only CPR.

Compressions only is vastly preferable in the case of sudden cardiac arrest, such as a heart attack, where the tissue and blood is still oxygenated and EMS is close by.


Breaths and compressions is vastly preferable in cases of drowning, asphyxiation, or other instances where the blood and body are hypoxic (deprived of oxygen).

In the first scenario (sudden cardiac arrest), you are unlikely to be able to actually revive the person and your goal is mainly to maintain them until they can be given advanced life support.

In the second scenario (drowning), the reintroduction of oxygen to the person's blood and tissue can revive them even if they are clinically dead. The rate of success in this scenario is much better than the gereral rate of success for CPR.





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Don't waste water!



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