Whitewater Forum: Gorge Games
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Gorge Games

Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7061
Printed Date: 06 Jul 2025 at 8:57pm


Topic: Gorge Games
Posted By: Fish
Subject: Gorge Games
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2008 at 5:28pm
For all you Class V creekers out there,  that are looking to test yourselves against the regions best paddlers, the Gorge Games will be held on the Green Truss section of the Upper White Salmon Friday July 18-21, with time trials beginning on Friday.   You can register online, volunteer to be safety,  or just show up and paddle the truss with your friends.  The event will be televised on Fox Sports Net and promises to be a great event with PLENTY of water!!!

www.gorgegames.net

Hope to see all the local crews come down and represent!



Replies:
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2008 at 9:25pm
Oh-oh... I think I'm beginning to see how my plans are shaping up for that weekend...

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🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋


Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2008 at 11:17pm
Wait a minute, Fish, wasn't it just last week you were telling me how the truss was "really only class IV"? (Not that I believed you)

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Posted By: PaulGamache
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2008 at 11:30pm
Truss is class IV, barring Big Brother.  However think most people who will be racing will be solid class V boaters.  If you were to pick apart the Truss, scout, take your time, set safety etc. The Truss is IV.  Racing full speed by yourself you want to be a class V boater. 

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27/320 & 1 bootie


Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2008 at 11:55pm
Gotta love the T&Cs...

"Any sponsor attempting to promote their brand at the Gorge Games without a letter of agreement, contract or verbal agreement with a Gorge Games authorized representative shall be removed from the premises and shall be responsible for paying an “unauthorized sponsor” fee of up to $10,000 and or criminal prosecution for trespassing."


I think I'll go down with the PP banner and see if I can rack up a $10k fine...


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Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 08 Jul 2008 at 11:58pm
By the way, back to being serious, I need someone to show me down the truss this year...

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Posted By: oukr9965
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 7:51am
Is the course going to include the wood in Lower Zig Zag......or is that gone now?


Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 7:56am
Do the Callaghan first. There are some consequences on the Truss.

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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman


Posted By: dragorossinw
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 8:27am
"Any sponsor attempting to promote their brand at the Gorge Games without a letter of agreement, contract or verbal agreement with a Gorge Games authorized representative shall be removed from the premises and shall be responsible for paying an “unauthorized sponsor” fee of up to $10,000 and or criminal prosecution for trespassing."
 
So if I drive up there with a truck full of DragoRossi kayaks and a bunch on Nookie stickers slapped on the side as a spectator, the Gorge Games are going to throw me in Hippie Jail?


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Tony Z
dragorossinorthwest@yahoo.com
www.nookiekayaking.us
www.dragorossi.com
www.donkeyfIip.com


Posted By: jblum
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 8:33am
Originally posted by PaulGamache

Truss is class IV, barring Big Brother.  However think most people who will be racing will be solid class V boaters.  If you were to pick apart the Truss, scout, take your time, set safety etc. The Truss is IV.  Racing full speed by yourself you want to be a class V boater. 


I'd disagree with Paul on this one.  Most people who are class IV boaters who do the truss portage Big Brother, Double Drop, sometimes lower Zig-Zag, and BZ Falls.  If you portage all these rapids and run it at a flow below 2.75, then yeah, its class IV.  If you're on it between 2.75-4ft or higher, you'd better be a Class V boater or you'd get your ass kicked and maybe swim over Big Brother.

I live on the White Salmon River and every summer I see a lot of people run the Truss who shouldn't be there.  You hear all the stories about dislocations, broken helmets, and almost going over big brother upside down or out of your boat.  A few people have swam lower zig zag, and its surprising there haven't been more major accidents there.

Although I think everyone needs to make their own decisions about what they run and don't run, rivers are rated at certain levels for a reason.  Taking the classifications that have been given to a run and saying they are less than the generally accepted, IMHO, is irresponsible and leads to less experienced boaters getting in over their heads.  Sure, if you portage everything on the little white, its easy class III, except you wouldn't paddle more than 150 feet of the entire river. 

Paddling is about being on the river and running rapids, not barely surviving your way down a portage fest because you're in over your head.  Paddle responsibly.


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JHB


Posted By: PaulGamache
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 10:06am
Hey Jonathan,
 
Gonna have to disagree w/ ya and stick by what I said.  The flow I was refering to the Truss being class IV (give or take 1/2 a class) at is the lower 2.75 and below as you've mentioned.  Obviously as a run get more juice in it's going to get harder.
 
No way is double drop class V at those flows, the wood in Zig Zag makes it a V but it's definetly not a class V move.  BZ is kind of like extra sauce on the cake, don't need to run it or portage it to do the Truss since it's sort of after the fact.  We can both agree Big Bro is a V.   
 
Every summer people get spanked on Brown's Canyon on the Arkansas, doesn't make that a class V run either, just means there is high traffic and people get beat.  People get creamed all the time on Pigeon Point, people have swam fishtail, doesn't make that one is class V either.
 
I hear what you're saying about under-rating runs being dangerous but if someone is a solid class IV boater (not swimming or out of control on a regular basis on class IV rapids) I would do the Truss w/ them and not feel like I'm putting their life or mine in any grave danger.  This is considering we took our time, scouted rapids they didn't feel comfortable running that day and set safety for those they did. 
 
That being said, for what it's worth the run is in a class V style setting, if you got destroyed down there it would be misserable having to deal w/ it.
 
 On a side note.  If I worked in White Salmon and someone came into a shop I was working at asking if they could run the Truss as a Class IV boater I would say no and suggest something else.
 
You going to be around for Gorge Games?  I'll give you a call when we head down.


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27/320 & 1 bootie


Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 10:14am
I have never ever ever heard of the Truss as class IV. Multiple conversations with multiple different people, several guidebooks, American Whitewater, etc. I've done some IV, and I don't profess to be an expert... but the Truss is huge. You guys, you awesome class V boaters, sandbag, alot, its really ridiculous. I've noticed this on alot of other runs that I am familiar with, it would be awesome to trust your opinions of a run, but I can't, I have to go ask other, more reliable people.

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Ashley Duffus
Well behaved women rarely make history.
www.naiyadays.blogspot.com


Posted By: Fish
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 10:18am
Leif,   you left  out a very important part of what i had said.  I mentioned that if you walk big brother, double drop, and BZ falls and the level was below 3 feet, i felt like most the rapids were class 4-4+.    And i still feel that way.  The majority of this stretch is pool drop, and you have the ability to scout and walk everything with the exception of zig zags which can be difficult, but doable.  


Posted By: PaulGamache
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 10:19am
Originally posted by ashleygoesdisco

I have never ever ever heard of the Truss as class IV. Multiple conversations with multiple different people, several guidebooks, American Whitewater, etc. I've done some IV, and I don't profess to be an expert... but the Truss is huge. You guys, you awesome class V boaters, sandbag, alot, its really ridiculous. I've noticed this on alot of other runs that I am familiar with, it would be awesome to trust your opinions of a run, but I can't, I have to go ask other, more reliable people.
 
http://www.oregonkayaking.net/rivers/greentruss/greentruss.html
"The Green Truss section of the White Salmon runs year-round and has long been a proving ground for Northwest paddlers. This run is always class five except in the fall when the levels drop to around two feet and it eases to IV+. "
 
You say you've done some class IV, I wouldn't suggest you do the Truss...trust me.


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27/320 & 1 bootie


Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 10:30am
IV+ without all the big rapids im assuming?

and i know, i wouldnt LET you tell me to run the truss. im merely saying that it has been my experience with certain paddlers on this board, that things they say are class 3 are really very much harder then that, and not something i should have been on at the time.


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Ashley Duffus
Well behaved women rarely make history.
www.naiyadays.blogspot.com


Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 10:34am
Hey Fish - I was just giving you a hard time.  Wasn't that obvious?

I still want to get out on the Truss this year, though I probably will walk big brother and BZ...


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Posted By: oukr9965
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 11:52am
Lot's of good points here!  I'm by no means a class V boater.  I've never had a no portage decent of the Truss, but I have had good and bad days on it.  On the bad days (although they were still great days) I'd like to say it was class V, but on the good days you do feel like it's more IV/IV+ with some class V highlights!...but that's just me.  Either way it's a kick ass run.  Been on it at a variety of flows.  Less water equals less pushy but more scrapage.  Higher flows equals pushier but cleaner lines. 
 
From a weekend warrior/class IV type boater Big Bro and BZ are the only two rapids I don't feel comfortable running.  I suppose the wood in lower ZZ isn't to appealing either. From that perspective, I don't personally feel portaging any of those rapids takes away from the experience of being on the Truss.
 
From a race perspective I can totally see why they call it Class V and say it's for class V/V+ paddlers.  You're not scouting, portaging, etc and you're paddling balls to the wall.  The only place you'll see me at the games is cheering on people from the banks or drinking beer at the takeout!
 
From a guidebook perspective I believe the river is rated with the general concensus on this thread (IV/V).  However, I do agree that it gets downplayed by some.  When some of my good friends started paddling the Truss it was class V for them.  Now they tell me they feel it's class IV besides BB and BZ.  I suppose it's all perspective, not to mention skill development. 


Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 3:23pm
Going by the old scale using the standard I-VI rating, the Truss is a V. It has an intimidating feel, some rapids are unportageable (the Zig Zags are V's for the wood and seives), some have bad consequences, some are a freakin' B to hike out of. The Bennett Book generally has great ratings for the runs that are in it. It's hard for me to remember sometimes how different runs felt when I was a newer boater. I do know that all new runs for me are a little intimidating. I don't know what's around the corner, don't know if there are hidden seives or hazzards. Not taking one or even several opinions isn't a bad option. Talk with good friends, research. And then call me up.

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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman


Posted By: cronar
Date Posted: 09 Jul 2008 at 4:18pm
Good skills alone are not an adequate crutch for lack of good judgement.  Seek out those with both good skills and judgement and you'll do alright.


Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2008 at 10:38pm
Anyone planning to carpool down?

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Posted By: fiddleyak
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2008 at 10:16am
I'm leaving early friday morning and coming back sunday night if someone wants to carpool.
Ben
206 999 99eight5


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Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2008 at 10:31am
I am thinking of heading down friday afternoon, back sunday eve

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Posted By: oukr9965
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2008 at 1:06pm
where are you guys going to camp?


Posted By: Fish
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2008 at 1:08pm
A bunch of us will be camping in the Trout Lake area. 


Posted By: windwaves
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2008 at 4:52pm
Jonathan or others...

My skills limit my "in-boat" access to below BZ!  Is there hike-in access to big brother or double drop for games spectating?




Posted By: jblum
Date Posted: 16 Jul 2008 at 11:15pm
My understanding of the Gorge Games access is this:  it sucks.

I have heard a limited number of spectators will be allowed to enter into the Maytag-BZ Falls area for the head to head.  Someone said 50 people, but I'm not sure if that's right.  As far as Big Brother and Dbl Drop, you need to cross private land to get there, so be careful of where you trespass.  I don't think there is an "access point" that is being arranged by the gg people for this.  This weekend is going to be a crazy fiasco with hundreds of rafting guests, spectators, athletes, and pissed off locals. 

I'm going to do my best to steer clear of Hood River (I waited 20 minutes to cross the bridge today and the games haven't even started yet!) and try to steer clear of the event sites, many of which I live less than a few miles from.  Althought its going to be a 'great' event, if you just want to come and boat this area, this would be (IMO) the worst weekend of the season to come do it.  Just wait a month and you can see the highlights on Fox Sports (Aug 17-19th)... 


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JHB


Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2008 at 4:32pm
Well as ussual I came in late to that shit storm about how the Truss should be rated.  I guess the only point I'd add to the mix is that any run a paddler has done more than 10 times (or less) drops a whole class-- for them personally.
 
Any run other than the most hairy class V++ can be wired by repeated runs. This is how the sandbagging gets going. People run something like the Truss or whatever 20 times (or less), and lose sight of how difficult it may have been the first time down. Even having someone give you verbal instruction, if you're willing to follow without scouting, shaves off some of the difficulty. I consider the rigors of scouting and portaging part of the rigors of completing the run. It consumes time and energy, and doesn't ensure you won't get hurt on the side of the river climbing over something, ect.
 
The rating system is designed to give people who've never been there a way (however imperfect) to asssess the difficulties their likely to encounter. Debates around this issue are natural, and eternal.I find Bennet's book to be consistantly rated, and I read it with the understanding that skills and equipement do advance, and popular contemporary assessments of the ratings with it, however slightly. We need a grounded metric that everyone agrees on, and the Bennet book is it, along with AW. Without these authorities, we're all just talking smack.
 
The bottom line is, IMHO, paddlers should not go poking their bows into canyons unless they've done the proper research (abundantly easy these days with the internet) about what lies downstream. I believe a paddler should have a BUFFER ZONE: an EXCESS of skill required to complete the run they are doing, ideally. Or at least the reasonable skill levels required to make it down in a controled and calm way. Because you never know what may go wrong.
 


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🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋


Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2008 at 3:53pm
I'm coming over tomorrow night after work, where are people camping?

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Ashley Duffus
Well behaved women rarely make history.
www.naiyadays.blogspot.com


Posted By: Jeff
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2008 at 6:15pm

Right on JP! 



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"What could possibly go wrong?"
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