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James
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Sum Dum Guy
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Topic: Solo Boating Posted: 06 Jun 2007 at 7:40pm |
With such a wide and high number of responses on that Eagle Falls thread I figured that it would be a good idea to start a thread to discuss Solo Boating. There seems to be alot of controversy over what Jake did... How is that any different than solo boating?
So does that mean Solo Boating is irresponsible and bad?
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Will
Paddler
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Posted: 06 Jun 2007 at 7:59pm |
Way to throw some fuel out there James....
I am pro the solo paddling.
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What could possibly go wrong?
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dave
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Posted: 06 Jun 2007 at 8:46pm |
I solo boat all the time, but stay well within my comfort limits and usually don't push the envelope. But, to each his own!
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Nomad
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PowWrangler
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Posted: 06 Jun 2007 at 8:56pm |
I was told that an AW Safety Coordinator (title?) from the past was
once seen coming out of Bailey Canyon in Colorado by himself. It's a
ten mile IV/V run.
Personally, I very rarely do it as I haven't needed to and it's
risky..especially class IV and above, but I can see the added focus it
gives you and there are some benefits to that.
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jondufay
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Posted: 06 Jun 2007 at 9:33pm |
playboating...all the time, many solo days at paradise ledge, sky, nooksack canyon, wenatchee, even skook (that is right suckas...how many people can say they have had skook all to themselves!.)
creeking...no. i know people that do and that is cool, it is thier deal, but not mine.
j
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ahh, f--- it dude, lets go boating...
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Rock
Rock Bumper
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Posted: 06 Jun 2007 at 9:45pm |
for the record, Bailey Canyon is a great run for IV/V boating. I've paddled the run many times and it has no drops with severe consequences and has a dirt trail along river right. Although I do not solo boat, I have friends that still solo this run.
I believe that solo boating is an individual decision that should be done only when the paddler is confident enough in his abilities to handle any situation that may arise. Park-and-play I consider a different animal and, personally, have no problem with it.
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-Erik
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Wog67
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Posted: 06 Jun 2007 at 10:14pm |
Ok, since I wouldnt dream of going solo at all right now.. Let me throw something out here. I think back to the flood, and we had a similar situation with a long thread going.. I found it very interesting for a couple of reasons. I think you first have those who know what they are doing, and those like myself who consider it a good day when you dont get pummeled too much on a class III...
Maybe its like my job. I have been an RN for 14 years or so. (doenst seem that long)Last week I had someone come in with a horrible 3rd degree burn on their chest. I was chatting with the doc and he asked me if I wanted to clean it up. (ok, no gory details) I said yeah, let me grab my stuff to do it.. and off I went on my merry way, My co-worker who is fairly new 2 years, and hadnt done such a thing was aghast that I might even do it and hum and joke with the patient. (who by the way had brass balls to let me work on it with lidocaine) But there you are, I wasnt doing anything I didnt think I could. Maybe its the same thing here, you know your limits, sometimes push em a bit, but dont bite off more then you can chew.. hopefully..
While again I follow the Chase yer bliss school of life, not all subscribe or want to... The main mantra is, dont screw anyone else up doing it. Easy enough. And I guess its easy for others (my co-worker) to have vastly different opinions, which does not mean were not equaly decent people, or that either opinion is right or wrong.. just different.
Edited by Wog67 - 06 Jun 2007 at 10:16pm
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PowWrangler
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Posted: 06 Jun 2007 at 10:34pm |
Yo Rock, where in Colorado did you live? Bailey is a classic run for sure. I've got about 20 under my belt and it actually would be one of the only runs of that caliber I'd consider soloing, minus supermax.
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Otter Boy
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Posted: 06 Jun 2007 at 10:54pm |
I do the occasional solo run. The last time was several weeks back on an Ingalls Creek/Peshastin Creek combo. I was leading a trip the next day and wanted an accurate wood report (and some time on the water ). So I made a calculated risk and ran it. It was well within my ability and I had no problems.
I think a lot of us are that way. If you've been paddling a while you have a very good idea of what you can and can't do. Machismo and baiting aside, I get the sense that most of us accept the risk of what we do, solo boating included. If you're going to do something on the river which increases your risk (solo, high water runs, etc) by all means, go for it. Just make sure you truely have the knowledge and experience to accurately calculate the risks.
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Chuck e fresh
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 12:43am |
NIce Bryon well put ! I feel the same, I'm an avid backcountry snowboarder mt. biker. Going solo is alway's a risk in most any sport that deals with the elements. I think as long as your not putting rescue worker's or your friends and family in harms way ( that means emotionially as well !! ) then go for it. If you can't handle it and rescue worker have to come save you or hall your dead body from some remote place maybey you shouldn't have gone or maybey you should just be left there. I tell people that all the time i.e my wife. If I die somewhere doing the things I love that's where I want to be and I except that, It's just making sure other people know your plan before you head out,so either they leave you be, or fork out the thoudands of dollars it cost's to get search party's, helecopters, and what ever else your worried family that needs closure might want. So as otter boy said we (paddler's, extreme sport addrenaline junkies. surfer's rock climber's base jumper's the list goes on and on..ect, ect. ect..) Are part of a bigger picture.You have to relize ( or you don't have too..)unless you've prepaired in all aspects of a solo adventure too make sure you prepaired to die alone with noone coming to save your ass.Please specify with someone you know so money and time isn't wasted on your own self scence of gradificaton for fix, It's not so different from an heroin addict overdosing and diiing for there addiction. YOUR ACTION'S EFFECT MORE PEOPLE THAN JUST YOURSELF!! Like I said I solo stuff but i'm content and so is my family on where and what I do in my life. You can only learn with expeirience and some people go there whole life not realizing what there action's can or do too people around them. I just will leave you with this ... Have fun ,be young ,drink pepsie!! No really just try to use your brain. That's why someone made helmet's, so you can !!! If I rambled it's cause I've been up way too long and worked way to much today... later, and thanks for the fire James, I'm all warmed up now !!
Edited by Chuck e fresh - 07 Jun 2007 at 12:48am
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There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!!
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tradguy2
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 8:19am |
My solo trip, the Powerhouse. CRAZY!
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... preparing for a river beating!
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arnobarno
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 8:23am |
I can do even better than that Tom. My solo trip, Helene Madison Pool Sessions. If I get there early enough, I'm the only one in the pool.
Edited by arnobarno - 07 Jun 2007 at 8:24am
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tradguy2
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 8:25am |
Sure Arno, but were you as scared as I was. Seriously, I was downright nervous.
Edited by tradguy2 - 07 Jun 2007 at 8:27am
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... preparing for a river beating!
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kaiakman
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 9:05am |
Most of my boating these days is solo. Hell, most of what I do outdoors, from hunting to backcountry riding, is solo also. Partly it is due to my personal schedule which makes it extremely difficult to plan trips with others, but it is also due to the fact that I enjoy it. There is a level of focus, performance, and learning that is unique to the solo experience. I truly love paddling with others, but seem to have the best, most intense experiences when dropping alone.
One thing that I don't think alot of kayakers reallize, is that even when you are in a group, you're on your own. 99% of the time, when the s### hits the fan, the only thing your buds can do for you is chase gear and recover bodies. I've actually seen more accidents occur on the river due to too many people, not too few. I've got into more trouble trying to save others than myself, and many other people have put themselves at risk just trying to save my gear. I'm not saying solo is safer, especially if you are setting safety ahead of drops. Being in a competent, well-sized group is safer, but only marginally. Every choice you make needs to be based on your risk assessment and your willingness to accept those risks.
Most of the folks I've found who oppose this sort of risk-taking are the same people who write helmet laws, who write drug laws, who want permits to climb mountains, who write local covenents about what color your house needs to be, and well frankly, my mother (i.e. those who purport to know what is best for you).
Know yourself, seek your limits, accept the risks, live your life.
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huckin harms
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 9:08am |
Yo Dufay,
I can say that YES it is a beautiful thing to have THAT WAVE all to your LONESOME
(cept for the gaggle of skook siters on the shore).
Tis a beautiful thing indeed.... oh the sweet memories of sweet times.
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arnobarno
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 9:17am |
Originally posted by kaiakman
Every choice you make needs to be based on your risk assessment and your willingness to accept those risks.
Most of the folks I've found who oppose this sort of risk-taking are the same people who write helmet laws, who write drug laws, who want permits to climb mountains, who write local covenents about what color your house needs to be, and well frankly, my mother (i.e. those who purport to know what is best for you).
Know yourself, seek your limits, accept the risks, live your life. Very well said. But, there are at least two types of people that oppose this risk taking: 1) The "nanny-staters" - the people that want to protect you from yourself. 2) The "don't make me pay $$$ for your mistakes" group I think group #1 is the vast majority of the people that oppose this type of risk taking. I don't agree with them. Your life, your choice. But, group #2 has a point. I wish there was a way somehow people could "sign up" to make these choices and avoid the entire debate about society having to pay for rescues, medical expenses, etc. etc. I don't want to have that debate here. I'm merely pointing out that there are two groups of opposing people.
Edited by arnobarno - 07 Jun 2007 at 9:22am
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PowWrangler
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 9:37am |
I can see both sides of the "I don't want to pay for your rescue" argument.
Keep in mind, though, that most SAR groups are all volunteer and are usually excited to get out and help. The majority of SAR calls are not to rescue some crazy climber who f'ed up, but some city slicker who fell off their hiking trail. Sure there are costs for a helicopter and the sheriffs time, but isn't that what tax dollars are for?? If my neighbors son is an idiot and burns half their house down playing with matches, should the fire dept send them a bill for their services?
I've just found it interesting how someone like BIll O'Reilly can bitch about our tax dollars paying for the "stupid climbers on Mt Hood" who provoked a large rescue and then having no problem with the government shelling out billions in corporate welfare. But that's a whole nother story. End of rant.
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James
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 9:41am |
I think both groups are wack. Everyone in group #2 needs to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that the root of #2 is a political problem not an issue over rescues. That is just the trigger that sets them off. The overall waste of our system is what is fueling the fire on #2. If you did research on the amount spent for rescues of High Risk Boaters it would almost be a joke spread across the regions who would pay for it. I don't think your looking at anything really there to pay for, it would be hard to figure at all in some areas even like ours. And honestly the person rescued should have to pay for it and usually they do have to pay for a percentage. I have friends that were in debt for long amounts of time because they went backcountry and got hurt ... Heli Lifted out and harborviewed etc... he paid for it ... not all but a good portion. The rest was literally written off by the hospitals. He wrote letters and they forgave him of the debts. Did he pay for the full cost of what they billed no. But I have a feeling they agreed to the settlement of the exact costs less profit margins to get him to pay the debts. That is usually the case. All the people that freak over #2 need to sit down with the ER and discuss Illegal Imigrants. I like to solo boat because it makes me feel alive, alone and connected more with everything around me. I often catch more eddies, stop and take in the life surround. Sometimes I talk with myself and sometimes I even practice safety techniques by my self. I am however less apt to try hard lines and push my personal limits, but it is still every bit as rewarding. Accidents can happen there is no question, I broke my tootsie but that would have happened if someone was in the eddy below or not, just like Kaiakman said. Your spot on dude... We should go Solo Boat some stuff together
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arnobarno
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 9:53am |
As for Bill O'Reilly, he can rant about lots of silly things. I don't
want to gov't to pay for any of this crap. Corporate welfare, your
neighbor's son playing with matches, illegal immigrant medical care,
your rescue, whatever.
Well here is an interesting anecdote to consider. I have the % and numbers a little off but you'll get the gist of it.
It used to be the case that every night in the Whistler backcountry, there would be multiple groups that went out-of-bounds and got themselves lost. They'd call up the mountain, a "rescue" would ensue and they'd be home in time for a yummy supper.
A couple of years ago, the mountain did a study and found that skiers in ski clothing would easily survive a night in the woods. So, they changed their policy to one of advice tonight, rescue tomorrow. They told people how to build a snow cave, or whatever, and then they'd rescue them tomorrow. The number of incidents went down something like 90%.
So, you can decide that this is all city-slicker types (probably the majority are) but it is interesting that behavior changes when there is a perceived "cost" to the behavior.
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Larry
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 9:54am |
I have to disagree with one point. Boating with a competent (experienced), group of an appropriate size for the river you are on is not just marginally safer. It is a hell of a-lot safer. I don't have time to list my own experiences to back this up let alone the "stories" of others. We tend to hear more about the tragedies where nothing could have been done then the close calls where a little "safety in numbers" made all the difference. I would not be here typing this if there were not 2 other people in the group (1 would not have been enough).
That said, I have soloed quite a few different rivers, not counting p&p. The most recent being the one I got into trouble on (I did not run that particular drop).
Make the calculated risk, make sure you feel comfortable, live your life and ENJOY it. But don't tell me going with a group is only marginally safer.
Now, about this "group 1" and "group 2" thing. I don't see what it has to do with solo boating. Those groups will have the same arguements whether you put on the river alone or with a group. Either way your putting yourself and/or others at risk. LEAVE THEM OUT OF IT.
All else aside, are you willing to take the risk (real or perceived) of enjoying your life. Or sit on your computer arguing. ALONE OR NOT, GET OUT THERE!!!
Edited by Larry - 07 Jun 2007 at 10:11am
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PowWrangler
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 10:45am |
I wouldn't quite call this arguing, just discussing and debating.
If I wasn't pretending to work, I would be out there Larry. Ahh, the beauty of getting paid to be on the internet.
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Jimmy
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 11:19am |
I used to solo boat a fair amount, but on stuff that I was below by ability level. Courtney used to work a lot of weekends so I would drive up to the river and bike or thumb a shuttle and paddle. I enjoy being alone in the wild and would get out of my boat and rest on the shore just to enjoy the peace and quiet. I've had club groups pass me and get on to me for paddlng solo and once this guy got seriously pissed that I declined to go down the rest of the river with his group. To each his own.
When I'm pushing my limits I like to be with a group that I perceive as being better than me, and with people I trust to smack me in the head when they think I'm about to do something stupid.
jimmy
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dave
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Posted: 07 Jun 2007 at 11:45am |
My lord dosnt anyone work anymore. Holy moly this post got long fast! To much reading to do..... I'm bored now, back to work..... Ohhh, I need some cookies, before I go solo boating again....
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Nomad
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Chuck e fresh
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Posted: 08 Jun 2007 at 8:32am |
Well, I just have to say solo or with fifty people again if you don't have gear and knowledge how too use it ! As well as too know what to do in a certain situation you will be or eventually be f----d . It's who your with or your own skills and knowledge that will and should alway's save yourself. I'm a firm beleiver in self survival. If you don't know don't go... Or is it go big or go home....It's so hard to focaus in this day and age...Ohhh the modern world it's so multi-taxing !!!
Edited by Chuck e fresh - 08 Jun 2007 at 8:34am
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There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!!
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Will
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Posted: 08 Jun 2007 at 8:41am |
Remember when Bruce Willis was cool?.....Not anymore.
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What could possibly go wrong?
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