Etiquette (for paddlers)
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Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=10201
Printed Date: 28 Apr 2024 at 6:20am
Topic: Etiquette (for paddlers)
Posted By: ChristianKnight
Subject: Etiquette (for paddlers)
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 2:09pm
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Hello peeps,
Got a question for you: Do we, as paddlers, have cultural etiquette? I mean, what does our etiquette say about chipping in for gas? Or about name-dropping? Or hooking up with your best-friend's girlfriend (who is a paddler)? I'm asking because I'm writing a brief guide to paddler's etiquette and I'm wondering if you guys have any ideas? Lemme know. ------------- Catch your eddies, Christian |
Replies:
Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 4:22pm
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I think bootie beers must always be savored in front of an audience...
------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there. Daniel Patrinellis 360.434.4616 |
Posted By: Ellingferd
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 4:27pm
| there is certainly wave etiquette, which gets a little hazy when you are coming downstream to the wave. do you eddy out, or hop on in front of everyone else? otherwise things like gas money seem like just the right thing to do no matter the situation. |
Posted By: doggievacation
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 5:23pm
Not sure if this falls under "trip etiquette" or "cultural etiquette" or what, but showing up on time is near the top of my list. If you agree to meet at Split Rock at 11, then you damn well better show up at 11 unless something completely unforeseen delays you, and even then you should call your crew to let them know you're on your way. I suppose if you're a way cool, super-good boater, everyone will cut you slack if you're late, but I'm neither of those things so I get there early. 
------------- Don't waste water! |
Posted By: GHannam
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 5:46pm
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I think it's appropriate to chip in for gas on short trips, but a necessity to split the gas on longer trips.
Wave etiquette is a little grey, largely depending on the wave size and whether you know the person on the wave or in the eddy. If you know them, you'll know if it'll bother them or not. If I don't know them, I will go to the back of the line in the eddy and wait my turn for the wave. Now, if it's a fly-by wave and you've had your chance to be on it, give it up to someone upstream of you. But that might just be me... like I said, it's grey. |
Posted By: Jule
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 6:55pm
| Don't overstate your skills. It makes people not want to paddle with you again. |
Posted By: septimus prime
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 9:16pm
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I always heard the person going downstream had right of way. People got off the wave as others came downstream.
------------- Jon Shell Bee |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 04 Nov 2010 at 9:59pm
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Don't use the following excuses for swimming. My skirt was on wrong The outfitting somehow came loose I had way to much water in my boat I could name some others but you get the idea... you can quickley get tagged as "that guy" |
Posted By: Courtney
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 8:32am
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I've always heard it as downstream traffic has the right of way but if that downstream traffic isn't running the rapid but instead wants to surf the way, he needs to go to the back of the line and wait his turn instead of cutting the durger goys time off the way after he's waited in line. Of coarse if this is a catch on the fly wave then it's nice to take a quick turn and get off so the upstream people can have a chance at it too.
Being on time is a bog one with me too. If I got up early to get to the river on time, so can you. 30 minutes is my max waiting time unless there's a call. If someone is late that is almost always on time I'll give him a break though.
One thing I've found to be really wonderful is that when it comes time to need team work weather it's getting boats up or down a hill or cliff or rescue work are whatever may need to be done, it seems that the paddlers I paddle with jump right in there and take on a roll with no questions asked. It's some of the best team work I've ever been around.
If someone joins a trip that drops names and talks about all of the hard runs they've done making sure that everyone knows, I generally don't care to paddle with them again. If they're good enough, word will get around without them bragging.
Courtney
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Posted By: Courtney
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 8:32am
| Damn! Spell check would have been good before I sent that. |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 8:48am
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GET OFF MY WAVE!!!!! ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 9:17am
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Always bring enough cam straps to get your boat on someone else's car/truck/mule. It sucks when I go on a fun trip and come home with less and less straps.
------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there. Daniel Patrinellis 360.434.4616 |
Posted By: tradguy2
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 9:17am
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Originally posted by James
Don't use the following excuses for swimming. My skirt was on wrong The outfitting somehow came loose I had way to much water in my boat I could name some others but you get the idea... you can quickley get tagged as "that guy" Ah yes, we do all do know "that" guy. When you swim you should man up and admit you did so because you got scared. Seems backwards but it's not. ------------- ... preparing for a river beating! |
Posted By: franzhorner
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 9:21am
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Here's one that I have seen be dangerous and its more of a creeking rule really than etiquette. If you are the first guy in a line of kayakers coming up on a portage or a place to scout a big rapid it is imperative that you get in the eddy, out of of your boat and then for you to get your boat out of the river or in a secure spot. I think its best if you then wait til everyone is out of the river and maybe help people. There have been many times where everyone is eddied out below me and I come into the eddy and no one is there but their boats are precariously left all over the only spot to get out and everyone in already downstream scouting. One time this happened to me and I had a hell of a time getting out of my boat because there was no where to park. In my effort to get out of the river I knocked someones boat into the river and it ran the rapid without them making me a bad guy......
------------- MORE RAIN PLEASE |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 9:22am
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Pitching in for gas and being on time, and being helpful, in my opinion fall under the broader catagory of human etiquitte.
Paddler's etiquette I think of as stuff that occurs while paddling, on the river, such as right of way ect...
-- Traditionally, the upstream boat has the right of way. If you are surfing a wave, technically, by this old-school rule, you should get off so the upstream boat can pass by. While the spirit of this rule makes sense, the letter of it doesn't adapt well to paddling culture from the mid '80's till now. Perhaps it is worthy of revisiting and modifying somewhat. I'd say if someone is surfing, it is better etiquette to boat around them and eddy out for your own surf.
--A boat that is bigger than you has right of way (rafts). In maritime law it is called the rule of tonage. If it's bigger than you stay the fu*k out of its way. If you get run over by one, you either didn't anticipate your need to get out of its way soon enough, or you deserve to get run over. That simple. Rafts have a right to hit waves, too. In fact, most of the occupants of that raft paid money to hit that wave. Something to consider.
--Here's my BIGGEST etiquette pet peeve:
Stop Bumping my boat while we are sharing the eddy. Yeah, some eddies are really turbulet, begging an exception to the rule, but most of the time, people could exercise some control of their boats. Seriously it really is an invasion of my personal space any time you hit, or even touch, my boat or paddle. Quick bumps will happen, and aren't a big deal, but it's more about the intent. At least TRY to have some style and social grace. I know, many of you are probably rolling your eyes right now.
Seriously- take pride in your boating skills and stop bumping me and/or trapping my stern against a rock because you are too lazy or too indifferent to control yourself in close proximity with others. Yeah, beginners get a free pass with this one, but most boaters have no excuse for being so... un-consciencious.
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 9:25am
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and yeah, Franz- GREAT example, buddy! ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 9:31am
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Safety-wise. Always have a throw bag. I know its common sense but you need to have one all the time when you're in your boat and when you're scouting. It needs to be clean, strong and above all accessible. Its not gonna do anybody any good smashed behind your float bags. When you inevitably scout that rapid, you need to have safety set for the guy that runs first and shows you the line, stuff goes wrong sometimes.
------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there. Daniel Patrinellis 360.434.4616 |
Posted By: doggievacation
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 11:02am
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Just about any explanation comes out sounding like an excuse. If you don't acknowledge that you fu*ked up, and do it openly and explicitly, then even the best explanation in the world still sounds like another lame excuse.
------------- Don't waste water! |
Posted By: Jed Hawkes
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 11:58am
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A few things... 1. always waiting to head dowstream until the last boater is in their boat floating in the water. Not in their boat on the shore, or almost has their skirt on, but actually floating. The death on the little white last year could be attributed to this. 2. maintaining situational awareness ie. looking back upstream and keeping an eye on your buddy. 3. helping at putin/takeout with group gear before personal gear, ie unloading/loading of boats. 4. thanking friends for pushing your boat and paddle to shore when you swam like a fish. I know it sounds silly, but it's happened enough for me to mention it. 5. I would like to reiterate Franz's point about takeout/scouting eddies. Proper placement of gear so that everyone has an opportunity to scout, and having one person remaining at the eddy to assist with getting out of boats etc. Also related to this is not losing your gear because it may jeopardize the whole group. I'm sure there are more, but this is all I can come up with for now. All of these sound like safety issues, but in my reality recognizing safety is tantamount to etiquette. By ignoring basic things that keep a trip safe, a paddler is ignoring etiquette. ------------- The line will become apparent 978-273-7723 |
Posted By: franzhorner
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 12:50pm
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Here's some more things I have thought of. Put-in and take outs: -don't block access points with your car for longer than it takes to load or unload your boats or at least be considerate if other boaters arrive. Rafters can be really bad about this -if you are running shuttle at the end of the trip do your best to get back to the take out as soon as possible. changing, having safety breaks, and eating could wait til your back to the rest of the group. I have froze my ass off, stone cold "unsafe", and hungry waiting for shuttle to return and when they do return they are all changed, glassy eyed, and eating a sandwich. Then when it takes me longer to change and get my crap together they are waiting for me and then I'm in a rush. If you can do some of those things while driving I don't mind multi-taskers.... There are also many more etiquette points to make about multiday trips. My rule number one is to do my best to not allow my problems to become the groups' problems. Bring enough libations for yourself. if you drink ten beers a day and have 10 safety meetings a day in your normal life than bring more per day on your trip. Don't eye up my supplies and then not ration because you see me with a fat sack and plenty of beers knowing I'm a nice guy and I'll hook you up and ration my own supplies. When you get to camp, don't rush off with your personal gear to set up your own stuff before the group's gear is unloaded and set up. Community gear first, personal gear next. Take your chores seriously. If you are scheduled to do the cooking for a given day don't get so hammered that you can't do it or that you do a crappy job. and if you are cooking try to do your best to make the clean up easy for the clean up people. There is more I'm sure..... ------------- MORE RAIN PLEASE |
Posted By: AaronS
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 1:30pm
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How about if you're shuttling to the put in, leave dry clothes at the takeout. Don't pile into my truck soaking wet and muddy. And don't say, "It's ok, it's a kyaking rig." It's not. It's my every day vehicle and I like nice sh*t. I can't afford a different vehicle for each of my hobbies. Respect my stuff. I'd rather have you bump my boat in an eddy than keep tapping my rear quarter panel with your F'n paddle. Like JP said, that my be more like good human behavior than kayaking ettiquette... |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 2:20pm
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SHOW UP ON TIME!!!! Sampson, this means you... ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: JoesKayak
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 2:37pm
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Watching your spacing within your group is important. This can be considered a safety issue as well as etiquette. For instance on a narrow creek run, keep together so you can keep tabs on each other, but don't be so close that if someone gets stuck on a rock or stopped by a hole that you're going to run into them. Also if we're on a play run, don't follow right behind me, so if I grab a surf you're going to knock me off of it. I also always liked Fish's personal safety protocol.... If I swim, rescue in this order: Beer first, boat second, me last. |
Posted By: JoesKayak
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 3:13pm
Gee, Slickhorn... something tells me you've have some some of those things occur to you on the river.  Another bit of multi-day etiquette... Kayakers... If I tell you I will carry a bag down the river for you on my raft, don't show up with 2 bags and a cot and a chair. Show up with the one bag we agreed upon and a 12 pack of beer (for me... any buy cans. I, and many others do not like glass in their inflatable boat). And don't tell me where to load your bag either. It's my raft and I have a good idea of how I like gear loaded on it. Also, if your rower does not drink, that does not mean you don't have to buy the 12-pack. Buy it and send it to me since I taught you this rule. |
Posted By: Jule
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 4:18pm
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This is becoming very philosophical. 12-packs!! Kayaking is really unique in the level of emotion and trust that is involved, and this is especially true if you have a mentoring relationship. I'm still very much in the learning phase of kayaking, and here are a few things about teaching and learning: - Be kind and giving, and take people out on class II every once in a while. Share the joy! - Work really hard on your roll! People seem to be enjoy taking out beginners a lot more if they don't swim every time they flip over. - If someone takes you out kayaking, GIVE THEM GAS MONEY without being asked. If they say no, insist. People in the PNW are too polite to ever ask for yucky things like money, but they will be passive-aggressively peeved (I know I am). - Give people a chance. Even if they're not as cool (yet) as you are, take them on slightly harder runs - you might be suprised by how well they do. Or not. - If someone is generous enough to lend you their gear, give them some goodies. Beer speaks louder than words. - If you destroy the gear that someone lent you, don't even ask if they want it replaced. Just replace it, or pay up. Same problem as with the gas money... - Don't grossly overestimate your skills. Just because you once ran a class IV rapid (upside down, presumably) it doesn't mean that you should start off with a class IV rapid the first time you're back in your boat in 10 years. Especially if downstream is a walled-in gorge. If your paddling partners say, hey, should we just do that class II stretch downstream, beause I think this is too hard for you and you will be swimming a lot, take a minute to think about whether they might have a point. If in doubt, you may want to trust the judgment of the more experienced boater. Perhaps that will put you on something slightly below your skills, but it will also prevent an epic. |
Posted By: JayB
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 4:21pm
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Seems like all of this stuff comes down to: 1). Try to follow the Golden Rule. 2) Technical stuff. In my experience, you can teach people technical stuff, but if they're not the kind of person who is naturally inclined to abide by rule number one - I'm not going to like them very much and will likely avoid paddling with them in the future. I've also found that folks that aren't good about following rule number one tend not to be the kind of people that pack throwbags, use float-bags, help out with loading-unloading, check to see if everyone is okay on the river, take off before everyone is ready, etc, etc, etc, etc because all of those things require thinking about the other guy. Having said that, as much as I try to follow rule number one and/or the technical stuff there are times when I mess up, fall short, forget, etc - so I appreciate partners that are mellow and gracious enough to forgive my screw-ups, and I try to do the same. ------------- -Jay |
Posted By: djohnson
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 7:27pm
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Originally posted by slickhorn
Don't invite Leif. Dude, what's the story here? |
Posted By: mokelumnekid
Date Posted: 05 Nov 2010 at 8:27pm
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I second Jule- on-topic story: she practically walked on water to give me a hug when I hit my first combat roll on a crappy little nothing eddy line. Point being that hoisting that lame newbie on your shoulders when they make some small, but significant progress, can be about the most empowering thing in the world for them. Most everyone here is so far beyond that- but bringing along people with support and compassion is a direct measure of true champions. So however that spins up in the moment, remember that newbies generally aim to please, look up to the rest of you, and a kind word and sensible direction and patience with their hesitations can mean more than you might think. Just saying! |
Posted By: SupaSta
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 2:04am
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Originally posted by djohnson
Let's keep the personal attacks to a minimum, no matter how much you may think they are deserved Originally posted by slickhorn Don't invite Leif. Dude, what's the story here?  ------------- Life is short, paddle hard! |
Posted By: SupaSta
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 2:05am
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Originally posted by Jule
Great post!! This is becoming very philosophical. 12-packs!! Kayaking is really unique in the level of emotion and trust that is involved, and this is especially true if you have a mentoring relationship. I'm still very much in the learning phase of kayaking, and here are a few things about teaching and learning: - Be kind and giving, and take people out on class II every once in a while. Share the joy! - Work really hard on your roll! People seem to be enjoy taking out beginners a lot more if they don't swim every time they flip over. - If someone takes you out kayaking, GIVE THEM GAS MONEY without being asked. If they say no, insist. People in the PNW are too polite to ever ask for yucky things like money, but they will be passive-aggressively peeved (I know I am). - Give people a chance. Even if they're not as cool (yet) as you are, take them on slightly harder runs - you might be suprised by how well they do. Or not. - If someone is generous enough to lend you their gear, give them some goodies. Beer speaks louder than words. - If you destroy the gear that someone lent you, don't even ask if they want it replaced. Just replace it, or pay up. Same problem as with the gas money... - Don't grossly overestimate your skills. Just because you once ran a class IV rapid (upside down, presumably) it doesn't mean that you should start off with a class IV rapid the first time you're back in your boat in 10 years. Especially if downstream is a walled-in gorge. If your paddling partners say, hey, should we just do that class II stretch downstream, beause I think this is too hard for you and you will be swimming a lot, take a minute to think about whether they might have a point. If in doubt, you may want to trust the judgment of the more experienced boater. Perhaps that will put you on something slightly below your skills, but it will also prevent an epic.  ------------- Life is short, paddle hard! |
Posted By: GHannam
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 8:16am
| I'd also like to give props to Jule on her post-- well said!! |
Posted By: rainpaddle
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2010 at 5:23pm
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When shuttling back to get your cars have your keys in your pocket, please. ; 0
Cheers, Rob G |
Posted By: ChristianKnight
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 10:55am
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This is awesome. I'll be relying on your comments as I write. Thank you. ------------- Catch your eddies, Christian |
Posted By: Chuck e fresh
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2010 at 11:26am
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I think. Sometimes, there for I am sometimes. You should always have a good instructor if you want a good experience and that simply means ( and they could be your friend, if they know how to teach properly they will continue to be your friend after the run) If you’re a good instructor and friend, before you have taken the student/friend down they should have learned to roll in a eddy or pool then barley moving water and definitely be comfortable upside down. They should have hopefully learned some paddle strokes and water currents and hydraulics( If the instructor/friend has that knowledge) If they know nothing about paddling hard shells, I.K's are the way to go for a better first few experiences on the river. My first rules for someone to teach is 1) knowledge 2) demonstration 3) helping the student learn those two things. The first rule to for people with no experience in what they’re getting into is.. If you don't know, don't go! This applies to skiing snowboarding and all sorts of sports that require muscle memory and body kinesthetics. ------------- There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!! |
Posted By: jaansdornea
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 1:26pm
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Originally posted by James Don't use the following excuses for swimming. My skirt was on wrong The outfitting somehow came loose I had way to much water in my boat I could name some others but you get the idea... you can quickley get tagged as "that guy" Damnit -- I suck! I've been that guy too many times. No more excuses for bad behavior. To all those that I've sheepishly given lame excuses to, I'm sorry. Next time the only words out of my mouth will be "I got scared" -- end of story. Too be honest, I hate myself when I swim and that probably isn't a good way to be. Please forgive me for being a royal A-hole. |
Posted By: Ellingferd
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2010 at 1:58pm
| Oh yeah, definitely dont bump my boat. I mean ever. Seriously. Dont even think about it. |
Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 8:42am
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Sybille almost always has chocolate at the take out to share. That's a great way to get invited on other trips. Pass it on! Take some time to help a less advanced paddler with their skills. If you're at a play feature or on a run with someone who is trying a move that you have down, and this can be someone you don't even know, try asking them if it's OK if you can help them out. (Asking permission is important! Most folks are happy to get a free lesson but some folks don't like it.) If they're open to it then give them a pointer or two. I've been the recipient of tips from many paddlers and it always1. Improves my paddling.
2. Makes me wanna pass it on.
When you're with a group and a paddler does a really good move (in relation to their skill set especially) give them some props. Everyone likes to feel good about themselves.
Have fun! If you have a sunny attitude you'll bring the whole group up. ------------- "I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake |
Posted By: STLboater
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 4:08pm
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To bring back who has the right away when dropping into a wave... I always feel that the person coming downstream has priority, especially on waves with eddy service. Once you are at the wave, you can keep entering said feature from the eddy, but you only have ONE chance to come at it from upstream. This is great practice for catching waves on the fly, and it is your only real chance for entry moves. If you are coming downstream, be respectful of the person on the wave, make sure you make eye contact and they are aware of you coming down. Do NOT muscle your way on. Also, if you have a chance to make eye contact, try to catch an eddy, usually they will peel off the wave for you to come on down. ------------- Kayak Academy Whitewater Instructor |
Posted By: STLboater
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 4:14pm
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After 4 years of shuttling UPS kids to and from the river, I have learned my do not list for passengers. 1. Do not stuff the backs of the seat with trash. Do not leave half eaten food, please just try not to leave trash in my rig. I am not a god damn house cleaner, in fact, I gave YOU a ride to the river. 2. When taking boats on and off my car, be careful. I have lost the paint on the edges of the top of my car from people sliding boats on and off. Even the glass on the side doors and back panels is scratched. I also had a boat drop on the top of one of my doors denting it (thank god it wasn't a mirror). Things happen, but please be extra careful. It isn't just a kayaking rig (nice term) (3) This is Univ. specific. Do not leave wet things in the back of my car because you are you do not have a place to dry gear at your dorm room. Figure it out, I am not going to find you after your stuff is dry. Discovering something that was stashed away wet for a week SUCKS. ------------- Kayak Academy Whitewater Instructor |
Posted By: Hilneevel
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 5:07pm
| I'm not sure if anybody has mentioned this yet, but try not to crowd eddies, especially on a tight creek. If you see the people in front of you eddying out above a rapid, and you can't tell how big the eddy is, start looking for your own eddy upstream of them until you're sure there is room for you down below. Tied in with that is leaving some space between you and the paddler in front of you. Don't put yourself in the position of having to be the second boat in a one-boat eddy. |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2010 at 5:36pm
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Adding to the eddie etiquette, if you are the person in a one boat eddie and see other people coming in, dont just sit there and be an eddie hog, move out and make room for the upstream boater. ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: doggievacation
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2010 at 10:48am
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I'd just like to make one request for those of you who are (graciously) helping newbies: Please let us know BEFORE the trip if you intend to bring a newbie; don't just show up at the put-in with your new GF and expect the rest of us to play Rescue Rangers all day long. Nine times out of ten, other boaters will be happy to help out and make a run with a newbie. However, I may not agree with you that this is a good run or a good level for a newbie to be on, but if you just show up unannounced with a newbie in-tow, it's like you're trying to make a very important safety decision for the whole group. AND I HATE THAT!!!! Also, just because you put an newbie in a two-man IK, it doesn't make them invincible. They can still panic, dump the boat, and now we've got two swimmers to rescue, two paddles to chase down, and one big ass boat to try to wrestle to shore. Again, if I CHOOSE to boat with a newbie, I've accepted whatever risk to me that might entail. You have no right to make that decision for me or anybody else.  *Note to pedantic types: Yes, I have the option of loading up my gear and driving home if I don't think it's going to be a safe trip, but why should I be put in that situation? Just let us know ahead of time if you want to bring a newbie. That's all I'm asking. ------------- Don't waste water! |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2010 at 2:41pm
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I like this response:
Don't carry a thowbag. Cut in line at play holes. paddle hard rivers solo so you don't have to wait for a slow paddler. Don't wear a helmet once you start feeling comfortable paddling class 5. You only get to run a drop blind once. NEVER SCOUT. ~ Tao it is pretty funny 
|
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2010 at 4:14pm
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Wow. Nice thread you've started here christian! some many good points I hadly feel like I need to add anything (except: don't bump my boat- and if I'm taking a beginner out, please don't bump them or interfere with their lines down the river...)
Originally posted by Jed Hawkes A few things... 1. wait to head downstream until the last boater is in their boat floating in the water. Not on the shore, or almost has their skirt on, but actually floating. The death on the little white last year could be attributed to this. 2. maintaining situational awareness ie. looking back upstream and keeping an eye on your buddy. 5. Proper placement of gear so that everyone has an opportunity to scout, and having one person assist with getting out of boats etc. ...not losing your gear because it may jeopardize the whole group. ... All of these sound like safety issues, but in my reality recognizing safety is tantamount to etiquette. By ignoring basic things that keep a trip safe, a paddler is ignoring etiquette. well said dude.
And Franz raised some good points, particularly about loading zones:
What is it with kayakers that gives them a sense of entitement to spread their boats and paddles all over a f**king road? Man, when some redneck drives by and we got the spot all cluttered up that way, I'm f**king embarrassed to be associated with everyone. That sh*t is not cool. Makes me just wanna run the sh*t over- because yeah- I once loaned a paddle to someone to use after they lost theirs, and they set it down in a parking zone where another boater ran it over and neither of the fu*kers ever took responsiblitity. What's up w/ that? And it was a f**king Backlund Paddle, too. I'm still pissed about that.
....which reminds me: you see someone with a wood paddle, treat their stick ith 5 times the care you treat your own. It's porobably hand crafted, therefore worth way more than your generic factory made Werner or At. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2010 at 4:22pm
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Here's a bunch of sh*t I really agree with (the whole posrt really, but here are the highlights:
Originally posted by slickhorn ...I'd also add a little something about inter-group etiquette. Don't pull out of an eddy in the middle of another group. If you are the lead boat coming up on a slower moving group, don't just start charging through -- make sure the rest of your group is ready to pass as well and not 1 mile behind you.
You break it, you replace it. Paddle, throwrope, whatever -- I shouldn't have to ask you, you should just do it. Pick up litter/microtrash .
plastic shavings from dragging boats.
Don't invite Leif. plastic shavings: Way too many people drag their boats way too much. It's like Hansel and Gretal everywhere I boat that is popular. That plastic boat may be a beast, but it's your burden, making YOU the beast of burden, not it. From a conservational standpoint this at the very least makes our user group look bad. Pick up your damn boat and carry it. Man up or woman up or whatever. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2010 at 4:27pm
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Originally posted by STLboater
When taking boats on and off my car, be careful. I have lost the paint on the edges of the top of my car from people sliding boats on and off. Even the glass on the side doors and back panels is scratched. I also had a boat drop on the top of one of my doors denting it (thank god it wasn't a mirror). Things happen, but please be extra careful. It isn't just a kayaking rig (nice term) yeah, but most of that is on you, dude. I you drive you gotta be Load Master. At the very least you gotta supervise the process. I know, though, it's prolly been a learing curve for you. Here's the thing with a lot of this stuff though: after a while, having paddles run over, getting punched in the face by the bow of a boat on a 5 boat wave, gettin your roof fu*ked up, ect. you get kinda agro about new comers to the sport doing the same sh*t over and over.
Don't make me pay for your learing curve. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: STLboater
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 7:21am
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You are definitly right about learning how to deal with newbies. I always supervise the boat loading process, but often you can't stop a bad act until it is too late. I guess I will forever be trapped in this cycle as I love bringing new people to the sport. But I also love boating with you core boaters! ------------- Kayak Academy Whitewater Instructor |
Posted By: irenen
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 11:23am
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Originally posted by doggievacation
don't just show up at the put-in with your new GF and expect the rest of us to play Rescue Rangers Wait.. you meant new BF, right?
Just kidding. This has been a really useful thread, but JP, I am now so paranoid about bumping into your boat in an eddy that I will probably hightail it the next time I see you on the river. ;) ------------- It's all fun and games until someone loses a paddle. |
Posted By: Jed Hawkes
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 12:59pm
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the boat bumping thing I feel is not just about bumping into a boat, but also peoples tendency to follow someone like lemmings to the sea into a crowded eddy and ignoring all of the other potential eddy options. Just a thought. ------------- The line will become apparent 978-273-7723 |
Posted By: mokelumnekid
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 1:27pm
| Wait- I'm a newbie, and who is this guy 'Eddy' everyone keeps talking about? |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 5:45pm
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Originally posted by irened
but JP, I am now so paranoid about bumping into your boat in an eddy that I will probably hightail it the next time I see you on the river. ;) well this is a forum, and this is what forums are for. Discussing things that otherwise wouldn't come up.
You are a good enough paddler at this point, Irene, that for you and other "advanced" paddlers (or whatever you consider yourself) could simply stand to think about that concept. it's not a put down. It isn't an eliteist comment. I'm sure it's already been taken as either. Just think about things from a new perspective. Paddlers who exercise greater control of their craft in a class III environment will have more control at their command on class IV and V. It is an immutable fact.
I hope it doesn't make you want to "hightail it". Not trying to make anyone feel insecure. Not walking on eggshells with humans anymore though either. But where I come from, people take pride in not fowling up other people's lines, or otherwise invading people's personal space on the river. We're all guilty of it from time to time and it's not really a big deal- just something to be considerate of- that's all I meant.
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: ChristianKnight
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 6:39pm
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I wasn't going to say anything because others have and it seemed to have stopped. But, it's sprouted again.
I didn't post a message on this forum so a few people could stick some jabs into any individual. Whatever beef you have with someone is between you and that someone, not between you and the professorpaddle.com community, which doesn't even allow that someone to respond. I don't care to be cool about this. Those posts are lame. ------------- Catch your eddies, Christian |
Posted By: irenen
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2010 at 7:04pm
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Thanks for posting Christian (although I'm not sure if you were including me in that, but that would be OK, a lot is open to interpretation online and sometimes we write stuff that gets taken the wrong way.) To be clear, I was joking about hightailing it out of an eddy, since I have paddled a lot with JP in the past and it has been lots of fun. But it does really seem that this thread, which started out as an etiquette pointers thread, turned into 'what really bugs the crap out of me that other paddlers do' thread - which is fundamentally a rant and maybe is natural, considering the overall topic, but still kind of a bummer.
It would be unfair for me to complain too much about things getting serious because that's one of the great things about this forum - people comment pretty freely and serious issues naturally arise even from threads that started out more casually. But in the interest of keeping things in perspective, on the flip side, not everything needs to be taken as a statement about life, the universe, and everything. Or at least, certainly not my posts - trust me. Half the time a large part of my brain is occupied with trying to remember if it's time for me to let my dog out to poop.
------------- It's all fun and games until someone loses a paddle. |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 11:42am
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Originally posted by jaansdornea Originally posted by James Don't use the following excuses for swimming. My skirt was on wrong The outfitting somehow came loose I had way to much water in my boat I could name some others but you get the idea... you can quickley get tagged as "that guy" Damnit -- I suck! I've been that guy too many times. No more excuses for bad behavior. To all those that I've sheepishly given lame excuses to, I'm sorry. Next time the only words out of my mouth will be "I got scared" -- end of story. Too be honest, I hate myself when I swim and that probably isn't a good way to be. Please forgive me for being a royal A-hole. We have all "been that guy" at least I know I have been. The key is to start looking at swimming in two ways.. First make sure your safe if there is a chance of swimming, second get out, shake it off and be glad that you pushed yourself and hopefully learned something. |
Posted By: doggievacation
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2010 at 5:19pm
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We've all been newbies, too. Personally, I like to let people know when I'm on a run for the first or second time and don't necessarily know the lines. I also feel like a newbie when I'm trying a new boat or paddle. My point isn't that newbies are bad or undesirable to boat with, it's that it's always good to let people know that they're going to be boating with a newbie.
------------- Don't waste water! |
Posted By: GHannam
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2010 at 1:40pm
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First off I'd like to say that I've appreciated, even enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts, but I think it's important to distinguish the differences between "universal human etiquette", "boating etiquette", and people's personal pet peeves...
Just sayin'. 
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Posted By: Jed Hawkes
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 3:29pm
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Sorry to dredge this thread out of the bottom of the PP forum intertidal zone but I thought of a new pet peeve. It concerns right of way, large groups, and eddies. So your with one of those monster groups of people that ends up putting on the river at once, it's a river that either not everyone is super comfortable with or requires individuals dropping into rapids one at a time. I find that instead of people give way to the upstream boater, or in this case the person at the top of the eddy getting ready to peel out, they just peel out as they see fit. As I understand it upstream boater has right of way, so with that said if your gonna peel out of an eddy do it proper, don't fade out of the bottom of the eddy without looking upstream. Peel out of that eddy like you were taught, with purpose at the top of the eddy. I find too often on these days with crowded eddies people peel out without structure or awareness of who might be queuing up at the top of the eddy. So next time your on the rio with a million of your closest acquaintances take a look at the guy at the top of the eddy trying to peel out but can't because someone else is fading out of the bottom with no look over the shoulder. Thanks. ------------- The line will become apparent 978-273-7723 |
Posted By: AdamS
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 4:56pm
| On river etiquette: Spend a weekend on the Gauley and there's a good chance you won't feel affronted in Washington ever again. We're lucky to have so much room for so many different kinds of boaters, and the skills to help each other out and cut each other some slack. |
Posted By: Jed Hawkes
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 9:19pm
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I guided the South East for 3 year and I understand your point, but we're better than a lowest common denominator attitude. I do admit that this area has a much smaller and more in tune boating community, but because of that we all know each other (for the most part) and we have to see each other on the and off the river regularly so taking a moment to be cognizant of these issues never hurts.
A little introspection goes a long way. And like JP said earlier this is Forum to draw attention to things that would be impossible to if you tried to address each person individually. Thanks for the input. ------------- The line will become apparent 978-273-7723 |
Posted By: edickerson2
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 9:22pm
| Well, as far as chipping in for gas, I'd say it's expected... however, being a female paddler, I do have a stigma about dating another paddler... one of these days (or altogether too often) he's bound to say "did you bring your wallet"? |
Posted By: FLUID
Date Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 10:24pm
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First off I'd like to say that I've appreciated, even enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts, but I think it's important to distinguish the differences between "universal human etiquette", "boating etiquette", and people's personal pet peeves... Just sayin'. 
Thank you !!! finally. I think personal "peeves" or whatever are what I try to avoid on this site. Im here for facts, river beta and rallying people to go kayak.. opinoins are just opinions because there just yours.... The river is humbling enough.
Now go have fun !!!!!!!!!!! and do more with your saturday nights
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Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 9:42am
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We all screw up on the river and off, I just say I am sorry when I crash into someone on a wave or something else happens. A little sorry can go a long way... ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: jella
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 11:07am
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Originally posted by edickerson2
Well, as far as chipping in for gas, I'd say it's expected... however, being a female paddler, I do have a stigma about dating another paddler... one of these days (or altogether too often) he's bound to say "did you bring your wallet"? I agree! If you go on an all day adventure just to get to the river, you should be paying for half the gas. No excuses, unless you address this issue before you leave and both parties agree.
It's not very fun being the person driving expecting your "car pooling" then finding out you have a mooch riding with you and you end up paying for all the gas. That is NOT COOL- no cigar, unless your trying to be ditched in the future.
 ------------- |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 11:29am
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Especially when gas is going to be over $4.00 a gal soon! ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: rokmnky
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 4:17pm
| Speaking of, how many boats can you fit on your mini dave? I dont expect it gets that great of gas mileage though the way you drive it. |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 4:22pm
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I can fit three boats on it the way it is configured now, I could get more on it if I took the horizontal Tule boat racks off. It gets around 35mpg the way I drive and if I drive on the freeway to Portland with the cruze control set to 65 it gets almost 40mpg... ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 4:23pm
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It sure is fun to drive fast in that thing though...ask James, we had it up to 115mph the other day...weeeeeeeeeeeeeee ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 4:50pm
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That must be a hell of a roof rack to keep the boats on top at 115 MPH!
Kyle ------------- I smell bacon |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 6:23pm
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Uh oh...sorry sherrif Wiggins...uh that wasnt in your county....it was on a race track...ya, thats it...race track... ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: SupaSta
Date Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 8:24pm
hahahahaha. At 115, that thing is a certaing death trap. Actually, even Leif's F15000 is a death trap at 115. That's clas V driving. 
Thanks for reviving this thread, it's all good stuff. New to me = "don't bump JP's boat"
Dan ------------- Life is short, paddle hard! |