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slickhorn
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IK MainiYak
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Topic: Kayakers chase down teen shooters Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 11:57am |
from http://www.khq.com/Global/story.asp?S=11840470
SPOKANE VALLEY, Wash. - A pair of Spokane Valley teens was
arrested Sunday afternoon after they used a pellet gun to shoot a
50-year-old man kayaking on the Spokane River.
Deputies were called to 16800 E. Indiana about 3:45 p.m. Sunday
after the two 17-year-old suspects were caught and held by the two
kayakers and a neighbor in the area.
The victim told a deputy that he and the other man had been on the
river at the Flora Rapids when the he was hit in the back with a
pellet, though he was not injured. When the two began paddling to
shore, the two teen boys took off running.
The neighbor said he had watched the two boys shooting at the
kayakers from his kitchen window. When the kayakers began chasing the
boys, he went up to the end of Flora Road to head them off.
An investigation revealed the teens had fired four or five pellets
at the kayakers before hitting the one man. Both teens were arrested
for Aiming/Discharging a Deadly Weapon and Fourth-Degree Assault.
The teens were released to their parents.
- Spokane Valley Police
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James
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Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 12:50pm |
The PFD probably helped soften the blow.
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RemAcct2
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Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 5:50pm |
See, you guys wonder why I sometimes have my .45 in my boat. Now you know why.
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dave
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Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 5:55pm |
So, these kayakers could not be content with just chasing the kids off? They actually had to spend the time to get these kids prosecuted and destroy their lives for just some stupid sh*t that kids sometimes do? In the old days we would just chase em down and give em a stern talking too or just chase em away. I can see prosecution if they keep doing it and others report it or someone got hurt, but for just one stupid time, they should have been given a break...
I feel sorry for the kids, this cold really mess up their futures...
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Nomad
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dave
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Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 5:56pm |
Please don't shoot me Lief, I don't want to die that way...
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Nomad
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James
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Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 6:11pm |
The .45 is useless against kids with a pellet gun. Whilst you are waving a gun around racking up felonies, I would have called the parents and then requested permission to issue an ass whippin.
And to Dave: it will not mess up their futures trust me. Under 18 is a beautiful thing
Edited by James - 20 Jan 2010 at 6:13pm
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franzhorner
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Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 6:29pm |
I think a sound ass kicking would have sufficed. There is nothing more humiliating than getting your ass beat when you deserve it. I'm reminded of JP's story of finding that guy breaking into his roomate's car.
Those kids were idiots. How could they not out run those boaters?!! Also, shooting people who aren't expecting it is unsporting. We had plenty of young kids up for BB gun wars in the woods. We would also not pump to full. I used to wear a puffy down vest and body shots were all we were after....
Regarding Lief...I am all for more responsible gun owners carrying. Having seen someone get shot and killed while on the river I am hesitant to have every Tom Dick and Harry packing heat but, I trust that people like Lief would only use it if there was someone doing something REALLY wrong. I would also believe that Lief keeps solid tabs on his weapons and the chances of an accidental shooting are very very low......
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MORE RAIN PLEASE
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slickhorn
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IK MainiYak
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Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 6:30pm |
Originally posted by dave
So, these kayakers could not be content with just chasing the kids off? They actually had to spend the time to get these kids prosecuted and destroy their lives for just some stupid sh*t that kids sometimes do? In the old days we would just chase em down and give em a stern talking too or just chase em away. I can see prosecution if they keep doing it and others report it or someone got hurt, but for just one stupid time, they should have been given a break...I feel sorry for the kids, this cold really mess up their futures...
WTF? I'm as anti-authority as anyone, but in no way ever is shooting anyone with anything okay. I might lean towards James' method of involve the parents and not rush to charges, but no way they get off with a talking to.
boating with a .45?
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RemAcct2
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Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 6:55pm |
I only bring a weapon on wilderness trips, when there is a concern of animals in the camp. I like to mention it in contexts like this because it makes James nervous. Making James nervous is kind of a hobby of mine...
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dave
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Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 6:56pm |
Originally posted by James
The .45 is useless against kids with a pellet gun. Whilst you are waving a gun around racking up felonies, I would have called the parents and then requested permission to issue an ass whippin.
And to Dave: it will not mess up their futures trust me. Under 18 is a beautiful thing
Any offense you commit now as a minor will stay on your permanent record forever. There is no sealing of records any more. The government changed the law a few years ago and now you are screwed for life. While assault 4 is only a misdemeanor, it is still considered a violent offense and will keep them from many things in life they may want to do in the future. There are no breaks anymore once you involve the law...
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Nomad
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James
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Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 7:16pm |
Ok phew, a few years ago.. I'm good then. I was promised ya know!
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dave
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Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 8:55pm |
Ya, you would be totally screwed these days. The old days of giving a minor a break are gone and the new day of MAXIMUM PUNISHMENT are here to stay...until we have a revolution or something worse...remember the Romans and what happened to them...
The LAW knows no mercy any more, not with crime being what it is these days.
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Nomad
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water wacko
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 6:48am |
Dave, kids shooting at unsuspecting people isn't funny or okay. What if the guy got shot in the face, or the back of the head and he drowned? I would've called the fuzz, too.
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RemAcct2
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 6:54am |
Sounds to me like we have a young Dick Cheney on our hands.
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slickhorn
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IK MainiYak
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 8:08am |
you might be misremembering your history. It was Cheney who shot unsuspecting people in the face with a gun and faced no charges or other consequences.
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matta
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 8:30am |
"Any offense you commit now as a minor will stay on your permanent record forever. There is no sealing of records any more. The government changed the law a few years ago and now you are screwed for life. While assault 4 is only a misdemeanor, it is still considered a violent offense and will keep them from many things in life they may want to do in the future.
There are no breaks anymore once you involve the law..."
Actually, there are a bunch of ways to allow the kids to take responsibility for their actions, face some sort of punishment/rehab (community service, gun classes, jail - although jail would be unlikely for this case with a kid without significant criminal history in king county) and still not be affected down the road if they comply with what they are supposed to do.
Juvenile courts allow for "diversions" of juvenile misdemeanors. This requires a juvenile go to a community diversion committee, do some sort of punishment/rehab (probably a gun safety class and community service) and the case is never filed, therefore there is no conviction. RCW 13.04.080
Even if a child fails to comply with diversion or is never sent to the diversion committee because the prosecutor deems the child's history to be to significant or the crime to be to serious, the prosecutor may negotiate to a different charge, one that carries less stigma than assault. (I have no idea if there's a statute, but I'm a prosecutor and I do it all the time).
Even if a child pleads guilty to Assault 4 (or another charge), the prosecutor has the ability to recommend a deferred sentence, which results in the case being dismissed if the child satisfies the conditions of sentence. First time offenders commonly get deferred recommendations. As your criminal history piles up, you are less likely to get that consideration. (RCW 3.66.067.)
Even if the prosecutor elects not to recommend the deferred sentence, the court can impose it over the objection of the prosecutor (same statute as above, same discretionary considerations).
Even if a deferred sentence is not imposed and there is no possibility for a later dismissal of the charges, the child may ask the court to seal the conviction record by WSP (When you do a criminal history check, WSP provides the response, therefore an employer requesting such records would not be made aware of it). State v. Noel, 101 Wn.App. 623, 5 P.3d 747, (2000).
Even if you were convicted of a felony (not the case here), a juvenile or adult may seek vacation of the records under RCWA 9.94A.640. Vacation of the record also prevent WSP from reporting the conviction. The assertion that Assault 4 is considered a "violent offense" is 1/2 true. Yes most people consider it violent b/c you assaulted someone, but for this purpose and pretty much all others in the criminal justice system, a violent offense is defined, is limited to felonies and Assault 4 doesn't qualify. RCWA 9.94A.030
It is true that none of these possibilities provides for sealing of the court file itself, but the court file is not what is searched when one asks the State of Washington for a crim history check, its the WSP file (There is no easy way to check all of the court files in this state, they are kept individually by county). Sealing of a court file has constitutional considerations and requires "compelling circumstances" which are unlikely to be found in this case, even assuming the kids stays on the straight and narrow for an extended period of time. Anyone who actually went to the trouble of doing a county by county search and found the file, however, would also see the nature of the offense, the resolution and whether the child complied with the requirements of any sentence. I suppose someone could decide to not hire someone for a job b/c of something like this, but it would be an odd decision if this was the only black mark on the person.
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JoesKayak
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 8:47am |
Originally posted by dave
Originally posted by James
And to Dave: it will not mess up their futures trust me. Under 18 is a beautiful thing
Any offense you commit now as a minor will stay on your permanent record forever. There is no sealing of records any more. The government changed the law a few years ago and now you are screwed for life. While assault 4 is only a misdemeanor, it is still considered a violent offense and will keep them from many things in life they may want to do in the future. There are no breaks anymore once you involve the law... Good! fu*k 'em. Serves them right. Anyone shoots at me or any other boater whether it be a pellet gun or a rifle, should be dealt with by the law. Not only to punish them but to deter other knuckleheads from trying something similar. I can't believe there's even any question to this on this forum.
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jP
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 1:34pm |
yeah- at some point, while I too, abhor the excessive "Long Arm of the Law" I realize that's the reson we have laws to begin with. The way I was raised, I always have considered assaulting people like this absolutely unthinkable!
-- err, uhh-wait- I confess there was that time inOhiopyle when my friends and I had an extremely efficient waterballon launcher and assaulted some unsuspecting canoeists-never mind.
Stay tuned for a full account of the whole event (it's among some of the best of my "River Lies!")
Suffice to say the victom got his own vindication, and we had to face our wrong doing, albiet in a fairly inconsequential way. I felt bad about it later and regretted my actions.
Guns, are different though, even if only sybolicly.
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jP
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 1:43pm |
Originally posted by leifkirchoff
See, you guys wonder why I sometimes have my .45 in my boat. Now you know why.
God help us...
So you're packing heat on the river now are ya? Or maybe you're just talking more sh*t like you always do?
Either way translates to more solid reasoning not to paddle with you.
But (less) seriously-
This new knowledge suggests to me that you should really learn how to boof Leif. I can just imagine you running the N. Frk of the Sauk or some similarly steep, mank infested boulder garden of a creek, flying off of a drop all outta control the way you do, pencilling in with a dranmatic piton, and having your loaded gun go off in your boat. Perhaps ruining the trip for everyone you are with who didn't even know you were packing a gun-as they have to evacuate you out of some canyon now.
Dude I am going to laugh my ass off someday when I read Charlie Walbridge's report!!
I know, It wouldn't really go off like that, but It's a humorous fantasy, you gotta admit!
And the truth is I wouldn't wish any sort of gun related mishap upon you. Be safe with that thing, Leif, OK? You worry me, kid.
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water wacko
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 3:24pm |
Leif, please don't bring a GUN when you paddle with me. Work on making the guns you already have work for you.
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ThrowYaMittsUp
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 4:07pm |
That's great Leif. You carry a gun to make other people nervous? Seems
like a perfectly valid reason to me, and just one more reason for
people to avoid you.
That's pretty f-in core!
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"Call on God, but row away from the rocks." ~H.S. Thompson
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RemAcct2
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 4:12pm |
No, I talk about guns to make James nervous. I thought I made that clear when I said James, not People. I think I carried a weapon with me once or twice out of 110 days last year. Not that I really give a damn whether "people" will or won't boat with me.
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dave
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 9:32pm |
That's cool, I forgot Matta was a prosecutor. You know me, my info is always a little off or opinionated.
I'm also an unusually forgiving person, something we could use more of in this world, so I always hate to see people get pulled into the system for first time offenses. I guess we only see the bad side of our system on the news, and not the foriving side.
Anyway, I will boat with you Leif. Just don't shoot at me please.
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Nomad
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RemAcct2
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Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 9:34pm |
Dave, if I shot at you, I'd have no one to boat with...
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rayw
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Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 9:13am |
Leif, this is exactly why I don't tell people when I'm strapped. I carry often but it always seems to freak everyone out if they know I'm packing at the time. Plus, just saying you have a gun or even a concealed weapons permit can be considered a threat and could potentially get you in trouble. what they don't know can't hurt em' or can it?
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