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James
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Sum Dum Guy
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   Topic: Now I am curious!!!
Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 11:51am |
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I have always wondered why we don't have river lodges that teach classes like Otter Bar etc.., it seems we only have individuals here and there that put a class together and it is never a formal program. I even re-call an amazing paddler and company that was formed for this type of thing over in wenatchee (Fluid Adventures), but it never took off.
Make a quick post to answer these questions. I am curious what the results will be.
1a. Have you ever paid for a block of instruction to learn kayaking?
(drop a name if you think they were good)
1b. If so how long was it and how much was it?
1c. What river class rating / skill level were you before your training?
1d. What river class rating / skill level were you after your training?
1e. How long ago was your training?
2. What river class rating / skill level are you now?
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James
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Sum Dum Guy
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 11:52am |
I will go first  1a. No 2. I-V
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Reina
Rock Bumper
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 12:05pm |
I had a great time learning from Wet Planet in White Salmon. Heather Herbeck and Andy Round are amazing. I took the 2-day rapid progression beginner course $225, they also have a 3-day course $295, and you can camp on-site and meet other beginner boaters. I met people from both Seattle and Portland there. They also do intermediate clinics. I had never been on the water before, so of course when I left, I was a class II boater. That was about a year ago. I'm now paddling class III/attempting an occasional class IV and have run boulder drop a few times succesfully.... but I also spent a few weeks in Chile working with Expediciones Chile last February. That definitely helped me get better- although Andy's teaching is what finally helped with my roll after returning from Chile. I asked a lot of questions and both Heather and Andy were able to answer in a way that made sense and helped me think through my boating... Both of them are Highly recommended!!!
I'm thinking I'll head back for more lessons to strengthen my skills and progress faster/better... Maybe on the Tieton with Heather's clinic this year.
Cheers!
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justin
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 1:50pm |
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1a. Yes, I took a class from Idaho State University's outdoor center.
b. It was a 1 trimester PE course, actually Heather paid, so I'm not sure how much it cost.
c. I had never been in a boat or on the water before.
d. III
e. About ten years ago.
2. III+/IV-
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Ryan
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 2:58pm |
1a. Yes, at Texas Tech University's outdoor program.
1b. I think it was once a week for 8 weeks then a trip on the San Marcos beer float. I think it was ~$200 which included gear and travel/food for the trip.
1c. Class 0
1d. Class II/III
1e. ~6 years ago
2. Class IV-V
Comments: The class I took was in a pool for 8 weeks before ever hitting the river. We learned stoke mechanics, wet exit, rolls, etc. Then we did a day on the river to go over ferries, eddy out, peal out, reading whitewater. Excellent course for a basic foundation. Then I moved to Washington!!
Edited by Ryan - 26 Aug 2009 at 3:51pm
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tradguy2
Master Poster
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 3:12pm |
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... preparing for a river beating!
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James
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Sum Dum Guy
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 3:35pm |
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Not to break up such a string of great responses, but Ryan yer not just a class IV boater... now your a sandbagger too!
Interesting that College was an introduction zone. Never thought of that ...
Edited by James - 26 Aug 2009 at 3:35pm
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Ryan
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 3:52pm |
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better?
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jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 4:30pm |
Originally posted by James
I have always wondered why we don't have river lodges that teach classes like Otter Bar etc.., it seems we only have individuals here and there that put a class together and it is never a formal program. I even re-call an amazing paddler and company that was formed for this type of thing over in wenatchee (Fluid Adventures), but it never took off.
Make a quick post to answer these questions. I am curious what the results will be.
1a. Have you ever paid for a block of instruction to learn kayaking?
(drop a name if you think they were good)
1b. If so how long was it and how much was it?
1c. What river class rating / skill level were you before your training?
1d. What river class rating / skill level were you after your training?
1e. How long ago was your training?
2. What river class rating / skill level are you now?
1a: Yes. Well, my mom and/or dad paid for it. At Riversport before Kara's dad bought it.
1b: It was a week or two, or maybe only a weekend. Maybe it was between $50-200
1c: I'd already been paddling class III and some IV (barely getting down it) up until then, but was training on class II-III+ water to solidify my fundementals.
1d: I was more of a solid class III paddler after the coarse. I remember making fun of a guy who was older than me who started the coarse with me and then "skipped town" in the middle of it after a few swims. John Licter was a good instructor.
1e:It was run by John Licter at the time, so it had to be in the early 80's.
2: I am a level I-V+ paddler. "Veteran" status.
Aside from that, most of my training and instruction came freely from perhaps a hundered or more really talented expert and intermediate paddlers, including a raft company that provided me with several seasons worth of quality training in swiftwater rescue.
Edited by jP - 26 Aug 2009 at 4:36pm
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tradguy2
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 4:35pm |
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What? Are the responses not detailed enough for you James?
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... preparing for a river beating!
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jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 4:36pm |
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How's that?
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Texas Dave
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 5:41pm |
1a - Yes, Some pool Session strokes workshops down in Texas and then some on river courses offereed by the Arkansas Canoe Club.
1b - Don't remember the exact cost but the ACC stuff was pretty cheap. Maybe $50 for a weekend long course
1c - Essentially a non paddler - rented a canoe a few times a year prior to the classes.
1d - Maybe Class II immediately afterwards and moved up pretty quickly to III / III+
1e - Roughly 2002 / 2003
2 - Class IV / tentative IV+
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Dave
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James
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Sum Dum Guy
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 8:55pm |
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These are awesome responses. Nothing implied Trad. I was meerly suggesting that ryan is not just a class IV paddler. I do see a pattern on the horizon line though....
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dave
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 9:33pm |
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a. I never took any formal classes, but did teach myself from books I still have: Adventure sports-Whitewater kayaking and Nealy-Kayak.
b. I am a class I boater, but I do Hurl myself down an occasional class V and hope for the best while screaming in fear...
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Nomad
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TastyWaves
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 10:09pm |
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check out the program my brother started in Colorado. He's looking for people to start chapters all over the US.
www.downstreamedge.com
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catwoman4cfs
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Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 1:30am |
JP's answer reminded me of my previous life so here goes: 1a/b) I also took a kayak class at Riversport, (one weekend) I met Bob and Kara and Erica, I don't at all remember the cost. 1c) I was a total beginner with a used fiberglass boat with no bulkhead or center wall. The only neoprene I could afford was a used sprayskirt so my paddling clothes were along the lines of a wool sweater and wind jacket. (keep in mind the class was in late Oct in Pennsylvania). 1d) After my class, I was mostly able to run Class III rapids and not flip (too much) - it took until that Winter before I learned how to roll. 1e) It was a LONG time ago, we'll leave it at that  2) Eventually I was running Class IV-IV+ in a kayak. I'm a catboater now and enjoy Class V in my cat. --Shelly
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JoesKayak
Rio Banditos
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Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 3:42pm |
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I took a kayaking class about 10 years ago from Alder Creek in Portland. I'm not sure how to answer the specific questions... as I was IKing and rafting for a long time before that, and I'll still do harder runs in those boats than a kayak.
I think the class was 2 on river and 5 or 6 pool/classroom sessions.
I'm a pretty solid class 2 boater now.
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James
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Sum Dum Guy
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Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 8:57am |
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I guess the pattern I am seeing here is that Classes are mostly taken as introduction to whitewater or skill builders for lower class learning. While I am sure that there are people out there like Blum mentioned (Rob) who can teach at an expert level for creeking, they are much fewer and hard to find.
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Wiggins
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Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 2:12pm |
1a. I took a beginning whitewater kayaking class from Aquasports who contracted with Outdoor Adventures, who hired Andre Hurley (who was a great instructor).
1b. It was a classroom day, two friday nights in the pool, and two weekends on the river.
1c. I had done some class II tubing, and had a pretty good river reading skills for a beginner from fishing.
1d. Class II
1e. Almost five years.
2. I'll do class IV on a good day.
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I smell bacon
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rayw
Rock Bumper
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Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 5:32pm |
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1a. I took the WKC class it was last February or march
1b. it wasn't cheap but it was over three weeks with about six classroom days one lake day and two rivers days
1c. I had been out twice before, once on headworks and once down the sky minus boulder drop. i probably shoudn't have been on either of these rivers and I ended up making out with a rock in a boulder garden in headworks
1d. strong II+
1e. still in my first year
2. class III some III+ but its not very pretty
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huckin harms
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Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 7:05pm |
1. No
2. IV+/V-
Instruction is a great way to get the solid skill set put into place; maybe avoid pickin up bad techniques... but then there is no substitute for practicing that 'perfect technique' after getting the instruction.
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Courtney
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Whitewater,sea kayaking, snowboarding, backpacking.
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Posted: 29 Aug 2009 at 9:17am |
1. No (but I started paddling in 1993 and there weren't many schools around yet, otherwise I'd have considered it.)
2. My favorite water to paddle is III / IV
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dave
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Posted: 30 Aug 2009 at 9:41am |
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James, I will school you fool...
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Nomad
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jP
Rio Banditos
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Posted: 01 Sep 2009 at 9:42pm |
Originally posted by James
I guess the pattern I am seeing here is that Classes are mostly taken as introduction to whitewater or skill builders for lower class learning. While I am sure that there are people out there like Blum mentioned (Rob) who can teach at an expert level for creeking, they are much fewer and hard to find.
Those teachers are out there. The supply is certainly there (qualified paddlers who are also good teachers-not a mutually exclusive thing.). But is the demand? For example, just one facet to consider might be this: What are two of the most rewarding aspects of paddling whitewater? Perhaps the challenge, and the satisfaction of progressing. So once you have the basic fundementals solidified (a good forward stroke, a roll or two, some timing in your boof and some basic experience on rivers), the learning process becomes self administering to a large extent. Why pay someone to teach you what you can discover yourself? On the other hand, humans can always learn and progress in new ways, and often aid each other in these processes. That's why much of the learning actually flourishes in a communal, non-commercial sense: Good paddlers striving to be better by paddling with (and watching acutely) better paddlers and their movements/habits.
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James
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Sum Dum Guy
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Posted: 01 Sep 2009 at 11:20pm |
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well said ... well said
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