| Author |
Message |
franzhorner
PP Junkie
outdoors music woodwork
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 751
|
   Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 1:48pm |
|
I think the car woner should be able to sue the boater. To add
good measure any nearby land owners should make sure that no one can
portage around that thing.
|
|
MORE RAIN PLEASE
|
 IP Logged   |
|
|
RemAcct2
Limited Access
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2643
|
Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 1:50pm |
|
My political ideology hasn't had a seat at the table for 21 years...
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4404
|
Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 1:55pm |
Wow.
I agree with Arno & Tobin about the Personal Responsibility.
I agree with Ellingferd about the need for socialized medicine, although as Leif pointed out it's hard to imagine how that would help in this scenerio, but it may help more than our current system allows.
--Great legal information, Sisu-- Clearly it's a big complex mess and it's hard to say which outcomes would leave the county coffers better off while still helping out this unfortunate guy and his wife. --I have compassion for him, and society should be strong enough to help him out in someway. But right now it isn't. It's bogged down by a failed economy that has been looted by the greedy and corrupt, the powerfull and already rich who have an insatiable appetite for more and more wealth. No wonder there's no money for public transit or health care.
But it's hard to imagine how the county is responsible for his accident, and that's a real sticking point for me. Yeah, one way or another he's f--ked up now, and needs to be cared for, and will likely impact society's collective pocketbook as a result. It just sucks that the court systems can be leveraged in this way to assign blame to an entire county that is too big to sit on that bicycle and ride it for him.
Here's where I have to point the finger at a party only briefly mentioned: the newspaper. That article offered NO INFORMATION OF VALUE WHATSOEVER!! From what I can tell, all it served to do was rile up people of strong opinions, without informing them adequately about the situation. It only serves to piss people off, who basicly know their tax dollars are already wasted beyond belief. It doesn't offer any solutions or insites to the big picture.
So- how does this affect our pursuit of happiness in the context of running rivers? You know how I feel about this, and how I was treated after a certain swim I had on a certain river that happened to have a lot of water in it at the time.(handcuffs)
Socialism or capitalism--it doesn't MATTER! Either way the system is and will be so bloated that it's doomed to crumple under its own weight. You guys worry about socialized medicine encroaching on your rights to paddle? The Insurance companies in our current system already do a great job of limiting who they'll provide health care for. They have our whole health care system held hostage.
When boating is outlawed, only outlaws will boat.
|
|
🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4404
|
Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 2:05pm |
Tobin--what's up with that photo and where did you get it? some background-- that's rad! Of all of the rivers I've run and adventures i've had, I've never had the opportunity to boof a partially submerged automobile!
Whatever-- yeah, the "teabaggers" may be able to be labled as "anarchists" (I doubt half of them know what "teabagging" is or what the F--- is really going on around them)
I wish more Americans would own up to how anarchistic they really are. Franz, if you knowingly decide to poach someone's private property, you are in effect engaging in an anarchist act. This goes to YOU, too, Leafy Boy! (refering to your recent MM trip).
Same thing when you run a red light. People who selectively follow rules when it suits them and break them when they don't are at the very least mild anarchists.
|
|
🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
Tobin
Forum Moderator
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1845
|
Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 2:26pm |
JP,
A buddy sent it to me, it is in Idaho, not sure the river just that it is at Jucer hole? any ideas?
I think the underlying tone is that personal responsibility is needed and the idea that you are accountable for your actions.
I am sure that I could have filed suit and won against a large number of people in my life, BUT, I enjoy being a self sufficient, semi mature person that is accountable for my actions.
Is the health care system really the problem?
Isn't that just more of the same, expecting someone to take care of you?
Freakin Lemmings!
|
|
Sure?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4404
|
Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 2:34pm |
|
The health care system is a whole other problem, but it's related I suppose. At the root of it though, we have shaped an absurd society where you cna sue anyone for anything. It's wastefull, expensive, and restrictive.
|
|
🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
JoesKayak
Rio Banditos
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1245
|
Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 3:39pm |
|
What concerns me is the thought that the lawsuit was based on the claim that King County showed that road on their website, etc. as a bike route.
Using the same logic, a kayaker could have an accident on a river and sue American whitewater because their website listed the river as a run. "They didn't say there was a log on the left side of the 11th rapid, so it's their fault I hit it".
A single lawsuit of this proportion could ruin AW and all it does for us. That would really suck.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
Ellingferd
McNasty
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 418
|
Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 6:32pm |
No kidding a socialized health care system wouldnt fix the roads. It would, however, prevent the need for a lawsuit for a lifetime of medical expenses for people like this guy who might not be totally entitled to 3.5 million, but need to pay for things anyway. Yeah, you could say that he could have taken the high road and asked for donations, but 3.5 million proabably isnt going to cover the expenses this guy is going to have for life, so I dont think a bake sale would have cut it either.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
Ellingferd
McNasty
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 418
|
Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 6:35pm |
And to Joes, it is not the same logic. Rivers are not built and maintained as ways of transportation by the state.
In order for your argument to follow, the city would have to build a river, and then advertise it as a waterway for transportation. But then that would open up a whole other can of worms.
The liability falls on the city in this case because they built the road, maintained it, and claimed it as a bike route. If they had gotten rid of the bike route designation, the case would have a lot less power.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
RemAcct2
Limited Access
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2643
|
Posted: 16 Apr 2009 at 7:08pm |
|
Again, albeit imperfectly, SSI and Medicare already solves this specific problem. Don't make new Government programs, use the ones you have.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
top pin
Rock Bumper
Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 20
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 12:02am |
|
Thats juicer rapid on the North Fork of the Payette. Solid CL V. That boof rocks!!!
Got any more pics of that?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
Tobin
Forum Moderator
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1845
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 12:11am |
I can get more!
I love when kayak porn overrides politico bs
Thanks for naming the river! Was the truck there when you ran it?
1
Edited by Tobin - 17 Apr 2009 at 12:12am
|
|
Sure?
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
JoesKayak
Rio Banditos
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1245
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 7:57am |
Originally posted by EllingferdAnd to Joes, it is not the same logic. Rivers are not built and maintained as ways of transportation by the state.
In order for your argument to follow, the city would have to build a river, and then advertise it as a waterway for transportation. But then that would open up a whole other can of worms.
The liability falls on the city in this case because they built the road, maintained it, and claimed it as a bike route. If they had gotten rid of the bike route designation, the case would have a lot less power. Oh really? The state doesn't build rivers? You missed the whole real point of my post. My example of someone suing AW is not an exact replica of what happened to the biker... however there's enough similarities that I could imagine a similar lawsuit happening against AW or some other paddling club or guidebook writer or paddling website. And that would really suck. Too many lawsuits are screwing up this country. It would be nice if we could take care of people like this guy without having a huge lawsuit being leveled against the taxpayers. Whenever someone sues a government agency, it's us picking up the tab. Plus your facts aren't straight anyway. The lawsuit wasn't against a city or the state, it was against King County.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
jondufay
PP Junkie
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 772
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 9:42am |
Originally posted by leifkirchoff
One Word: Aflac
When government provides things for free (like healthcare), it creates an artificially high supply coupled with flat or even lowered supply. This creates lengthy waiting times. It can take months for elective surgery in Canada, and I have heard it is not unusual to wait six months for routine dental care in the UK. Socialized medicine creates more issues than it solves because it removes personal responsibility from the equation. People must take responsibility for their own care. Go out, buy insurance. Take responsibility. Don’t expect Obama to do it for you.
James,
care to chime in here and relate the tails of your shoulder...oh yeah, our system of HMO's is great. How many referals did you have to get? what was the wait time?
|
|
ahh, f--- it dude, lets go boating...
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
jondufay
PP Junkie
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 772
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 9:43am |
|
tales of your shoulder (sorry, no edit feature)
|
|
ahh, f--- it dude, lets go boating...
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
RemAcct2
Limited Access
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2643
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 10:01am |
|
I would assume James has moved insurance carriers from Group Health. Group Health has a horrible reputation. Not all HMOs are bad, I hear good things about Kaiser.
I have Regence (individual PPO plan), and have had an excellent experience with them.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
14kayaking2
Splat Wheeler
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 112
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 11:44am |
|
I think it is ridiculous that anyone can sue for things like that. I call it pathetic. The guy made his choices, had an accident, and decided to be pathetic, bought a good lawyer (Washington is one of highest litigious states in the country), and managed to win. Yet another point of our failing judicial system if you ask me. Big Bear resort in California closed it's doors due to litigation too. Also....the road ride he was doing wasn't a race, it is a festival of sorts. like Ragbri....
|
|
"We are only boaters between swims" Matty
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4404
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 12:59pm |
Yeah it's stupid. The thing is I'm not bothered as much by the concept of society ponying up $$ for his tradgedy so much as the whole idea of him pointing the finger and saying "YOU! It's YOUR fault I got MYSELF hurt!", and all the money we spend just hearing the B.S. in court. And all the money some lawyers get to make off of it.
--Yeah Leif, it's great that YOU can afford medical care.
--I don't think Juicer is a class V rapid. Tasted more like class IV+ to me. I sure as hell didn't see any SUV to boof last fall when I was there, otherwise you bet your baby's sports bra I'd have boofed the sh** out of it!!
Although when I saw the photo Tobin posted, that was the rapid that came to mind. Perhaps because of an article I saw in Paddler Mag that showed somebody's Subaru in the bottom of Juicer with boats tied on the roof! Not the same vehicle though. What is it about "Juicer" that ends up sucking cars and SUVs into it? Maybe it IS class V!
|
|
🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
RemAcct2
Limited Access
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2643
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 3:00pm |
|
I pay $130 per month.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
Ellingferd
McNasty
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 418
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 3:27pm |
Joes, nice use of the red herring. You are correct, it was the county and not the city. I mean that really blew my argument apart.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
rayw
Rock Bumper
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 42
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 5:58pm |
|
I hear stories like these and always consider the quality of life. I hope my family would have the good sense to say, "he had a good run, pull the plug!" seven months in a coma just to be a bed bound veg the rest of my life? no thank you. did anyone else notice the wife had a different last name? maybe she didn't assume his, but five bucks says she has moved on since she dumped the hubby in some assisted living facility.
It scares me to think of what it would be like if our country went down the road of socialized health care. the systems we have are so misused now.
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
14kayaking2
Splat Wheeler
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 112
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 7:03pm |
|
Wetmouse, I agree, I think we should be able to shoot some SOB like
that. I know that my parents/family would never EVER let something
like that come to pass... come to think of it, my mom would disown me
for trying to sue after I hurt myself. I wish Americans could actually
blame themselves for something rather than someone else. I am sorry
that these people have hurt themselves, but the fact of the matter is
if you are doing some activity (regardless), you should take the
responsibility for any accident that is caused by you. I mean if you
are running and you trip over a stick, that is your dumb ass fault.
Granted, bikes shouldn't break, etc. however whenever we pick up an
activity one should know that it is not a question of if you should
fall....it is WHEN YOU FALL..... So pony up and don't sue for stupid
shit. In other countries that would have been laughed out of court,
but not in this sue happy country.
Another point.... The Downhill mountain biking that was closed from big bear was caused by a sue happy husband after his wife died there. However it happened at a race, she was a professional, and EVERYONE knew that the jumps were to close together and so slowing down for them was required. She didn't, cased the front of the second set of doubles and broke her neck. Hubby said that the jumps were built wrong....which given the line in....yeah they were to close together and too poppy, but everyone knew it and she SHOULD have ridden the course appropriately. Everyone had to slam the brakes before them, so in reality she was going to fast for conditions, something that should be considered her fault, not theirs.
One last thing.....
NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING, it just makes an ASS out of U and ME.
|
|
"We are only boaters between swims" Matty
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
14kayaking2
Splat Wheeler
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 112
|
Posted: 17 Apr 2009 at 7:06pm |
|
oooh oooh.... forgot.....
to finish the story about Big Bear closing it's doors....
HE didn't come up with the idea to sue them, some lawyer came to him and said he could make him a lot of money for his pain.
I would bet that something similar may have happened in the Street riding case up here,
TOO MANY LAWYERS.... Seriously, what are we teaching people when our TV ads talk about... "MAKE THEM PAY!" my god, we are breeding retarded, lazy, fat, boring, lemmings, no wonder America is the laughing stock of the world.
|
|
"We are only boaters between swims" Matty
|
|
IP Logged |
|
|
Register
Login
Active Topics
Memberlist
Search
