Paul - snowyacking in Seattle? That doesn't sound safe... Then again, neither does being a pedestrian in downtown seattle with the crazy drivers in the snow.

David - in regards to your last post...you (everyone, for that matter) has much they can learn from JP. Listen to your elders.

.....to be clear I've paddled w/ Dave or "Kayak the World" and he is definitely a SOLID boater.  More so than a lot of the people yelling about how offended they are.  I look forward to paddling w/ him again to not only improve my skills but to follow his lines down any run anywhere.

Take his advice as a compliment to the fact that he doesn't want to see you or anyone else die on the river.  I hope that where ever I go in life people like Dave are there to be a voice of reason, even if they sling insults and disrespect towards me.

wow, I got to get cought up here, alot of reading!

JP the point:  Running big drops I am aware of the risk and dangers and accept them.  I think what Dave was getting at was that everyone should think of the sky as a class V (VI) run today because of the increased hazards and not treat this like a run of the mill run down the sky.   Posting on a community forum where anyone and everyone can read it may encourage those not prepared for such consequences to engage in such a risk.

If you want we can settle this w/ some good ole WWF in the Shed again

I agree snow kayaking in Seattle tomorrow will be far more dangerous then your sky run today...but I bet it's going to be one hell of a time!

Are you talking to me Leif? I actually have been boating since you were in diapers! And JP is not my elder, I may be older than him even though I don't look it!

So there!

Holy Fing WOW!!

I was just trying to help each side see the others view before it went crazy... I don't think it ever got crazy ... good job guys ... and before I sign off for a short weekend posting hiatus, I would like to mention two things with a closing question.

1. Encapsulation was used 3 times so far but I used it first.
2. I had more big words than anyone else, and walrus blubber really is extremely flammable.

Is there a greenland roll with burning fat that has to stay lit?
(I can't see how a bunch of rowdy eskimo's did not do this already)

Paul - not to add fuel to the fire, however, since I posted the trip, I want to comment on one thing.

First - I want to mention that I deleted the trip after these concerns were brought up. That said, I always make sure folks going on trips I post have appropriate gear, and in the case of this trip, I certainly would have an appropriate conversation with anyone who I felt wasn't up to the task at hand.

Frankly, I'd like to see more trips posted, in all classes. I don't understand why it isn't all right to post class V trips. PDX does it, why not us. The community should be open, folks should feel comfortable in sharing their plans. I know there is worry about inexperienced paddlers signing up for a class V trip, but ultimately, PP is a conduit to communicate with all of our paddling colleagues. It is far easier and certainly more inclusive for me to post a trip, rather than call everyone I know. If someone signs up who you are unfamiliar with, or don't think should be on the trip - call them. Easy as that. I do think PP sign-up should require a phone in the profile to sign up for trips.

This comes down to a point I have made on several occasions that Seattle (and Bellingham) boaters are more cliqueish (is that a word?) than PDX boaters, and I have often wondered why. Regardless of the reason, I think PP is a way to change that behavior, which I believe to be a detriment to the community.

Bottom line - I like to post trips. It's much easier than calling fifty people.

Don't you agree?

James--the answer to your question is "Yes" for some, and "No" for others.

D4--you may be older and wiser, but I look better in panty hose

Tobin--No one ever mentioned dick size--that's solely your thought process at work. If someone makes untrue careless statements and insults, I have a right and obligation to defend my friends and myself, by stating FACTS to repudiate baseless claims, OK?

Now stop ruining the winter wonderland. Read the trip report, or shut up. Or start your own thread about the hazards of Hypothermia. Just don't drag people's names in the mud while you're doin it. It's not constructive. That's my main beef.

Ice is nice.             The steeper the better!

yes, a most ridiculous shitstorm, if cheaply entertaining. i've been swirling around this discussion for a bit, and after some reflection, allow my own thoughts to bubble to the surface... bear with me here there's a lot i want to comment on.

KTW and WETMOUSE: you two may have more in common than either may care to admit. you both come across as egotists. in your own ways, you both had valid points that in my opinion got subverted by your own tones of superiority and condecension.

KTW: your safety concerns are not without merit, but i think you have blown things way out of proportion from the start. it sounds as if wetmouse and the others were safe about their trip, and had no problems. who are you to decide who is qualified for various conditions? who is or is not a class v boater? who is "disrespectful to the river" and who is not? who is a good "example for the community" ect.when you talk down to people, how do you expect them to absorb your message (which i believe was well intended, if mis directed)? it's good of you to point out the dangers you did, but while accusing others as "arrogant", that's exactly how you came across. btw: TOO MANY CAPS!!!

WETMOUSE: your response was at least as inflamatory. sure ktw was incitefull, but you chose the "fight fire with fire" approach, and it seems as if that tact did not serve you well. two wrongs don't make a right. you have some valid points, but unfortunately they are lost in a dense cloud of words. btw: TOO MANY WORDS!!! you need to learn how to say what you want, then stop talking. (though this is a long post too).

sorry guys. just callin 'em how i see 'em!

PAUL: i wouldn't claim to be fluent in "wetmouse speak", but i think he's trying to point out the subjectivity of how we all percieve risk and danger with relationship to our own comfort zones, and that we shouldn't impose our own on each other in militant ways. in  other words, let people decide how they want to take and manage their own risks. i agree with wetmouse that dropping a 100 footer is more hazardous than the sky in low water, snowy conditions. let me ask you: when you ran the 100 footer, did you get hurt? did you break any gear? they could have on the sky, i suppose, but it may not be as probable. the probabilities of injury or mishap on large waterfalls seems to be far greater. having said that, hypothermia cannot be underestimated!!

SEPTIMUS: nicely put, brief counter to KTW's insinuations.

LEIF: seems lots of people are coming at this from the standpoint of posting a trip on a public forum, and the potential calamities that could ensue. that said, sounds like you know the people you were with, so i'm not sure what the big deal is. for the most part, only die hard  boaters would show up for such a trip anyway, not to try to evaluate anyone's skill with that observation. it does spark debate about the trip planner, and how it could be used, for better or worse. in your defense, its not as if you invited a bunch of newbies along. people are blowing this up with too many "what if's". saddly what's being crowded out of the discussion is how pretty it must have been on the river yesterday! i'd rather read about that! got any photos?

JAMES: you just FUNNY! laughter is the best way to bring people together. way to moderate man! btw: thanks for the historical reminder!

JEFF: Fibnok forgives your sins

this will be my only post here on this topic, so in closing let me say what is most important for me to say:

you are all creatures of one tribe. you are all unique and that is what makes you of value to each other. try to treat each other with more respect, and you'll each reap far greater rewards. all kayakers have things to share, to teach, and to learn! KTW and WETMOUSE ought to go paddle together sometime.

see you on the river! (when it's warmer!)

Just another thought about "postings" from experiences on GCP.