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James
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Sum Dum Guy

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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 11:15pm
if you were in the middle of doing an act that you felt was above and beyond (going home getting supplies going out to help someone ect...) and a police officer after you had obeyed all of his requests continued to yell at you, all while he was violating the very same law in a more dangerous manner.... well the hypocrisy overwhelmed me.

Lets all try to remember that a traffic stop is different than helping cars out of a ditch too.
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James
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 11:22pm
And its not like I said move your f**king car you lazy stupid son of a bitch...  or Drop that heat wagon and lets get busy you half cocked blank firing little tit of a old sweaty sow

I was really actually very polite
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  Quote Kyle K Replybullet Posted: 05 Dec 2007 at 9:25am
James,
 
As I wasn't there, I don't know what was said or in what tone of voice. I was just making a comment, an assumption really, based on my experiences and anecdotal evidence. Even when someone of authority is in the wrong, they hate hearing it. I know, I'm a parent and I've said regretable things when my kid was just pissing me off, even if he was in the right. Sometimes all it takes is one little phrase.
 
Speaking of my kid, he just got a ticket for skateboarding on the sidewalk if front of Westlake Center. He was on his way to catch a bus and was late to school. When the cop stopped him and questioned him my son didn't say anything wrong (as he tells it) but he finally admitted to me that he used a bit of a snide tone. He thought he was being subtle but I doubt the cop did. Either way he ended up with the ticket.
 
Back to your incident: Who knows what put the guy in that frame of mind that day. Considering the snow on the roads I assume he was dealing with a lot of accidents, etc. Still, the fact that he witnessed you helping another motorist and actually gave you grief in the first place bites. That's really inexcusable. The other cops buying in to bullying you around sucks as well.
 
I hope you beat all of this in court and I hope you get somewhere with your complaint. My only advice is to be very polite and not act self righteous. Judges and cops work together all the time so you need to persuade the judge that you are a very level headed and reasonable individual who was just trying to help out another person in need.
 
As for leaving the country, please don't. We need good people here like you who will fight this kind of crap and change the system. In my opinion, the best way to beat something is to learn it completely and then strike from within. Short of absolute revolt I don't think there is any other way. And I don't think this country is ready for revolt at the moment. Just look at the way we've laid down like sheep for the current administration's lies, deceit and abuse of our constitutional rights. Unfortunately, I don't think you'll find it much better anywhere else. I've travelled a good bit and every place seems to suffer from some kind of authority abuse. Frankly I think that may be part of the human condition.
 
Good luck!
 
Kyle
"I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake                  
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Chuck e fresh
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  Quote Chuck e fresh Replybullet Posted: 05 Dec 2007 at 2:31pm
Cop bashing seem's a bit harsh for voicing your opinioin about your interaction's with cop's. I barley go into details about my expeirences with the justice system cops are just a miniscuel dot on the wide line that cover's our society. I'd say gay bashing is somthing you should be conserned about more than cop bashing. Cop's are a protected spieces. I don't feel bad if they get a few truth's exposed about there action's. I do feel bad when I here about people almost killing one of my friends because there gay. That's how they are, they didn't sighn up for it  ! Cop bashing ....pa -sha !! I don't feel bad for cop's but just like anything I don't judge a book by it's cover, no matter if it has swine on it or not !!

Edited by Chuck e fresh - 05 Dec 2007 at 2:35pm
There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!!
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James
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 05 Dec 2007 at 4:53pm
Since I started this thing I am going lock the thread up for a while... When I get finished with court I will post the results here so you guys can check it out.

I don't think I am going to be wanting tons of folks there though. A few experienced folks told me that it might be a bad idea and I trust them.

Just FYI I am locking the thread so it does not get to far off topic as they often do. And to wrap it up until court, let me say I have had contact with more law enforcement and law type workers in the last week in response to this than I have all year. They have all been really helpful, understanding and copasetic... It just goes to show were all humans, we all make mistakes, we all need forgiveness and we all need to have the opportunity to grow and try again. These dudes made some mistakes, but the underlying point I would like to make is that if mistakes are not pointed out, explained and understood no one can learn from them. I hope they are willing to accept that they made mistakes and could have done a better job so they can grow past it.

Ps.. nice post count Kyle... to bad you can stay in that position forever


Edited by James - 05 Dec 2007 at 4:55pm
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 1:18pm
This is a quick follow up to those that were curious how this whole event ended up.

Dave and I went to court this morning and I contested my case with the support of dave as a witness to the event. The insurance charge was dropped without question because I had a letter stating my coverage at the time faxed in from Geico. Because I apparently requested that the officers be present with the wrong dept. they were not there.

I gave my testimony and briefly described the events in basically the same method I have described them here. The judge was very clear that this was not the place to discuss the actions of the officers but rather the facts surrounding the case. After I gave my testimony, Dave was sworn in and also gave his testimony.

After we spoke the judge explained despite our good intentions,  that it is illegal in the state of washington for any party to assist another motorist unless they are a liscensed and bonded firm that is equipped with the state approved equipment required for roadside assistance (Lights, Cones ect..) She seemed like she was going to stick on the fine so Dave started to chime in again to re-state the facts.... He got politely shutdown and was told his turn to speak was Over! The judge then announced that the fines would all be waived but gave me a verbal warning not to assist motorists again, then she excused the actions of the officers with the statement that it was probably just a "Bad Day".

I am glad that I did not get a ticket, but I am very disappointed that nothing is going to be done in regards to the actions of the officers. Despite a Internal Investigations case I have filed and multiple contacts to his superior officers every official I have spoken with including Capt Webster in the Internal Affairs Office has basically told me that nothing is going to happen of course without directly saying that... Let it rest ect... Not a big deal ect....

Just like the officer told me when they were harrassing me. Complain all you want, Nothing you say or do is going to help and nothing is going to happen to us. They are correct there is no question about it.

Now I will always look back on past Seattle PI articles with a fond smile, when I remember the story about the "Mysterious Good Samaritian" that used his farm tractor to help pull out cars and plow roads during the last snow storm, receiving compliments from the Sheriffs office and the local press. I will enjoy a good chuckle when the next snow storm hits and thousands of motorists are stranded like always, and if left to just towing companies wait times reach over 3 - 4 days but yet miraculously the vehicles are cleared by other means, bringing traffic relief back to the highways which would have taken days and millions of dollars if left to only Towing Companies.

Enjoy the fact that because your are an American you have freedom, but not the right to help people that are in need. In this day and Age only the government has the ability to select the best parties to provide assistance, stated by my judge, and demonstrated by continued events such as Hurricanes, Tsunamis, Wars, and Snow Storms, we can easily see that our government is eager to receive assistance and proclaim hero's when a disaster exposes our governments in-ability to perform, but when the disaster is not identified in the public eye and our government appears in control, assistance is not acceptable, and those that attempt to help are viewed and prosecuted for their illegal actions. SImply stated assisting your neighbor or stranger indicates that the government is not able to function as well as a you, and these actions are viewed as attacks against our governments ability to perform. This system now operates without the understanding that we the citizens make up the government, but rather that we are a seperate group of people controlled and maintained by our government.

If we can only provide as
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  Quote Otter Boy Replybullet Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 3:08pm
Hey James, thanks for the update. I'm glad the fines were waved. I can only shake my head, mutter under my breath and find out how to join the Libertarian Party.
 
- OB
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  Quote slickhorn Replybullet Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 3:09pm
Damn James, that's something else.  I guess it is a victory of sorts that you aren't being fined -- congrats there. 

I guess I'm so jaded I'm not very surprised by the rest of it, but I admire your efforts to wring a victory from the unresponsive bureaucracy. 

I guess shit like this is why I don't apply for river permits anymore.  When they start telling me where I can camp when, and how long I can stay there... well, I'd rather be elsewhere.
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  Quote Wiggins Replybullet Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 4:50pm
I am glad the fines were dropped, but that is bullshit. I have never heard anything about private parties not being able to assist motorists or remove stranded vehicles from the roadway (with owner permission of course). We allow people to use private citizen tows all the time, and at times have even done traffic control for them while they removed the vehicle. Maybe it is a King County Ord., but even if it is the officer/deputy did not write you that ticket. Your ticket was writen for parking an unattended vehicle on the roadway. Whether you were in violation of that particular statute or not is irrelevant to the case. I have had tickets thrown out because I cited for the wrong offense and another one fit the offense commited better (there are about five laws on how to do a proper lane change titled "unsafe lane change"). Everyone in the court acknowledged that the driver had committed an offense, but it did not matter since I had charged him for the wrong one.
 
Were your fines dropped or were the tickets dismissed?
 
Did you get the officer's affidavits on discovery? If you could scan those and send them to my e-mail I would be curious to see what they wrote.
 
On the KCSO side of things I am sorry that nothing is happening. If you still want to go after the people involved my next step would be the press, county council, or a citizens review panel.
 
If nothing else look at it this way: the officer writing you those tickets probably cost the county more than the fines on the ticket after all the manpower hours used in court, and you dealing with various KCSO people, and now they don't get the fines to cover any of those costs. It not be the victory you wanted, but the county definately lost on this one.
 
Kyle


Edited by Wiggins - 03 Mar 2008 at 4:55pm
I smell bacon
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  Quote water wacko Replybullet Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 7:53pm
James, I'm glad the fines were all dropped. I think this whole thing can be summed up by saying, "We can all rest easy, the gov't has everything under control*"

* = sarcasm

Edited by water wacko - 04 Mar 2008 at 6:19am
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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  Quote arnobarno Replybullet Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 9:35pm
Well, I am the ultimate cynic on government (among many things) and hardly find this outcome surprising though am also glad that your fine was waived.  In general, governments are great at authority and lousy at responsibility.  Authority is easy - get out the cuffs!  But responsibility actually requires them to do something involving real talent (sorry Kyle - this certainly isn't meant to denigrate the good work that you and many other law enforcement officers do on the front lines). 

Government starts out saying they are going to help you but ultimately ends up pushing you around.  Be careful granting them more authority hoping to get them to take on more responsibility.  It won't happen.


Edited by arnobarno - 03 Mar 2008 at 9:42pm
arn9schaeffer@gmail.com (remove 9 for my real email address)
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  Quote montana mark Replybullet Posted: 04 Mar 2008 at 12:47pm

you know you're a redneck when:

sounds like a cluster. i can just imagine a bunch of ya-who's  making multiple attempts, snapping ropes, discussing new anchors, and jerking off in the middle of the road while it is snowing... and then to save the day a HIPPIE VAN comes to the rescue. the cop should have thrown your ass in jail. don't worry guys hillary or o'bama will save you!

tee hee

MM

 
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  Quote rainpaddle Replybullet Posted: 04 Mar 2008 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by James


Here is what I have done. I have downloaded a form from King Counties Sheriff website. This is the complaint section. I will fill it out in detail and mail one copy to the address listed on the form. One copy I am hand delivering to this officer's supervisor. I am also going to sit down and request this supervisor listen to my concerns as a fellow service member and grounded citizen concerned for the future of his community.

I will contest the ticket, request what wiggins has suggested and make a good list of witnesses that were invovled as we had plenty and everyone was very shocked at the outcome.... One witness even offered to pay for my ticket after seeing the event.

Thanks again and please don't hesitate to keep helping me out here ... I need it!
 
James,
 
Contact  your county council member, assuming you live in King county. Provide them all documentation you generate.The pols love to oversee the police.  Additionally, it is fairly easy to get an appointment with a patrol captain. The KC website should list the patrol captains for the various districts. By creating a paper trail for these cops it may aid you and will definately help others to follow. No organization likes "human resources flunkees."
 
Cheers,
 
Rob G
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