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James
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Sum Dum Guy
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Topic: I need help please!!! Posted: 01 Dec 2007 at 11:32pm |
This is the real deal folks...
Tonight I became aware that our country is in a serious situation.... The outcome of what happens to me with determine my choice to continue living in this country.
On the way home from snowshoeing me and a friend saw alot of wild stuff ... one of them was a truck in the ditch about 4 miles from my house on Petrovisky.... As we drove by I watched them snap a rope and I offered to bring my tow kit with my come along back to help ... if they were around I would help and if they were not well cool for them. So I did what I said and headed back with my gear to help them.
When I arrived they were stuck still so we made our first failed attempt ... they never made a good anchor and I suggested a new placement on the dakota pickup and we went for round 2.... btw this is in my vanagon.
Round 2 was a success and I pulled him right on out. Of course he hit his brakes once out making me stop too... So I jumped out and with no traffic I went to release the tow gear and get my car off the road. As I went to get back into my car I head a loudspeaker say .... Do Not Block the Road with your Vehicle..
I thought ... no problem... I am not hooked to this guy anymore... I will just pull over like I did and then I motioned with a wave out my window that I was clear...so folks could pass without going into the other lane... which was clear ...My hazards were on during the whole time, btw
So as I get out to go pickup the tow gear, I see three police cars in the lane... The one in the front of about 15 cars stops in the middle of the road ... rolls his window down and says don't block the road... To which I replied ... I'm sorry about that but I am off the road now, and I was pulling that truck out of the ditch...Your the one blocking the road by the way.
The dude was... Period... I was in the road for maybe 3 seconds and this guys stops to yell at me after using his loudspeaker and he parks for a few minutes....So I told him the facts .... I was on the side of the road, and he was in the road. To which he replied... do you want some tickets punk? I thought it was a joke considering the traffic and truck just out of ditch etc... like maybe he was about to laugh ... say thanks and drive away.... but instead he pulls over... turns on his lights and proceeds to have 2 other cars surround us making a total spectical while he writes me a ticket with multiple infractions totalling around $650.00 for blocking the road.
Getting the ticket was an ordeal to as another cop sat and verbally assaulted me suggesting that I should do something physical so he could use force.... The whole time a third kept my friend a boater away.
I was not going to get physical so they gave me a ticket and started packing up. Of course while this is going on another car gets stuck on the same hill and as they are about to leave I ask the officer....
So I understand why you aren't going to give yourself a ticket for blocking the road... but what about that guy and I pointed to a cadillac that had been stuck in the other lane blocking all west bound traffic. He has been there blocking that lane for about 5 minutes now and I was only there for a few seconds?
The officer nicely responds... He is stuck, and you were in our way.
All three squad cars drive off leaving the Caddillac stuck in the road, and me standing with a huge ticket wondering how the fuck I just got a huge penalty for helping someone out of a ditch?
During this event, I turned to one of the officers and asked him why he would do something that seemed so wrong. He said to me that what I feel was wrong felt right to him.
So I have decided that when I contest this ticket if I do not get a complete waiver of all charges and fines, I am going to either become a cop or leave this ruined country that I fought for and now realize is so lost, no one may want to even try and find it. <
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rockarolla
Tricky Woo
Trying to not fear the REAPER
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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Posts: 240
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Posted: 01 Dec 2007 at 11:55pm |
I was there, i saw the evil , I triped
out, I said "no way!" these dudes were
totally
forgein.
no
respect!
I walked up to one of the coper dudes and asked "
whats my friend being charged with?
He told me to go back and sit in the car. so I kicked him
in the balls and ran in a
ditch.
no seirious all I could do was
watch
.
James Bro im with you dude , what
ever it
take
lets get em!!!!!
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Dave Moroles. 253 241 8550.
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Larry
Super Looper
Mr. Generosity
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 12:38am |
I will be there even if it is at midnight on my anniversary on the planet Mars. I just hope my hatred of all cops, lawers, judges, and the entire corrupt system doesn't make things worse for you or land me in contept, or worse. (if you are a cop, lawer, or judge, I hope offense was taken caus' it was certainly meant) Cops are the lowest of them all, I think they must have been bullied in school and now they're taking it out on the wrold. Sorry to steal your rant James, but I will quit now before I really get going.
Let us now when and where. See you all there.
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josho
Splat Wheeler
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 12:49am |
All cops are not bad. A couple of bad eggs spoil the carton. From the description of the incident I would say you got a bad egg. Once one cop makes a decision the others have no choice but to back him up. Division is weakness.
Edited by josho - 02 Dec 2007 at 12:53am
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James
Admin
Sum Dum Guy
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 1:15am |
Josh are you willing to accept that when a police officer makes a poor
decision, other officers should just watch or help out of support?
All cops are not bad, but I can honestly say that after this event the
only thing those three police officers did not do to me was physically
assault me.
The problem in this case was not that there was a Bad Cop. It was that
three officers isolated me from people I was helping and basically took
turns assaulting me because I "mouthed of by saying that the first
officer was blocking the road"
This was three cops that wanted to be the shit and they used thier
badges and guns and they took my money because they wanted to hurt me
and figured if they touched me they would get in trouble.... They knew
that writting obscenely ridiculous tickets that waste my time and tax
dollars is not something they could be checked on or really
investigated as abuse.... That has to change.
Go ahead and compare it to eggs. ... I call that armed robery. I have
had a gun to me before and I tell you this... I never continued to feel
as violated as I do right now after being openly abused by three King
Country Sheriff's that even acknowledged the fact that they were
abusing me... they even laughed at me and one said ... hey do you have
insurance.... you have 30 seconds to get it out.... and as I raced
through my wallet he says to his buddy ...... Opp that was 30 seconds
... write him up for no insurance too....what else would you like a
ticket for tonight, how about assualting an officer... would you like a
free night in jail? Then he says to his other buddy , check his
tabs and search his vehicle. ....
I will sure think twice about using the battleCat for good causes...
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Wiggins
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 1:42am |
James,
Sounds messed up. What were the other infractions they cited you with?
Get a copy of the radio log and audio recording of it on discovery as well as the affidavit for the ticket. Make sure to get summons for all the involved officers to appear. If any witnesses can't appear on your behalf get written statements from them (I can e-mail you a copy of one of our statement forms if you want to know what info to include). Attitude adjustment tickets (which it sounds like this is) have questionable legal standing because you are not being punished for the offense.
Not being there and only having your description and Rockolla's comments to go off of I would guess that your comments and Rockolla's presence was a big part of the reason for the number of cops there. Making chipy comments when cops are talking to you is going to gear the cops up for a fight because based on experience they know that may well be what is coming. Rockolla walking into the scene of the stop compunds this because now they have to watch two potential threat areas. They have the legal authority to keep people away from the scene of any investigation (including traffic stops).
Like it or not the public accepts that while on duty cops get to break the traffic laws when it is reasonable to do so. Washington state law codifies it as well. Unless the officers set up a special relationship with the cadillac driver (ie. told him that they were going to help him) they have no duty or obligation to assist him. The cops blocking traffic and not helping the other driver (which I agree they should have done) are not going to be a issue that will help you in court.
The comments they made were definately unjustifiable as far as they were berating you. There is no excuse for calling you a punk or inviting you to fight them. What exactly did they say?
Lastly I would suggest keeping Larry (and anyone like him) out of the court room. The only people the judge will allow to be heard are people who were there or have direct knoweldge pertaining to the proceeding, and if Larry can't keep his mouth shut it is going to hurt your case. Nothing wrong with having support there, but at the end of the day this will be handled in traffic court which is about keeping things moving. If you want to put the screws to the cops that did this traffic court is neither the time nor the place. Complain to their supervisor, work the way up the chain of command until you are satisfied that the issue has been sufficiently dealt with, and if all else fails sue them.
Kyle
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I smell bacon
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Wiggins
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 1:51am |
The other officers don't have to back the guy up. I have walked away from other officers, I have told them not to do something, and I have even gone so far as to tell them I will dispute their testimony in court. If I show up at a police incident I am responsible for what happens. If I fail to address obvious abuses of police authority I am just as responsible as the cop abusing his authority.
Kyle
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I smell bacon
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josho
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 2:40am |
I am willing to accept an officers bad decision at the time of the incident. At that point you really do not have much of a choice other that making a bad situation worse. I agree there is an abuse of power with in law enforcement agencies. The time to fight is at the judicial level. I have felt violated as well, the peoples word does carry the same weight as police officers. I have had police tell me it did not matter what I said, it would always be a lie. I have had officers flat out lie in their police statements. With the abscence of witnesses, the judge took the lawman's word over mine. Wiggins, I respect your judgement to question another officers decision, but you are in the minority. Most would support the brotherhood of the force.
Edited by josho - 02 Dec 2007 at 2:43am
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water wacko
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Team Jackson
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 5:40am |
James that is terrible. I haven't gotten a ticket in that area, but I've seen a number of cops "just lookin'" if you know what I mean. I could give you my theories, but it doesn't change what happened to you. If you really want to do some damage, get a GOOD lawyer and contact the local media. They love this kind of trash. Maybe even help them launch an internal investigation. I've been fired up about flagrant uses of personal power. I won't tell you what I did, but it might not have been totally legal.
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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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septimus prime
Big Boofer
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 8:56am |
Reading that post made my blood boil. Whatever happened to officer friendly helping the cat out of the tree. We are frogs being slowly boiled, and I fear we are going to wake up and find ourselves in a complete police state. I don't have any legal experience, but I will support the cause in anyway i can. I am all about protest.
"They got the guns,but we got the numbers"
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Jon Shell Bee
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James
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Sum Dum Guy
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 9:39am |
I am so Irate still .
What happened was not simply a few Officers that felt they needed to make a point. It was 3 young cops that wanted to control someone and they know now that they don't need a reason to mess with you. And if you don't comply well you will be abused without any accountability.
I hope everyone of you reading this in the next week does some kind act for a stranger. And I hope that during that kind act you are attacked by officers that are 100% aware of what your doing, but just feel compelled to fuck with you because they want to feel power and control. Why do I hope this... because until you are all offended in the most obsence manners you will never be willing to fight....
I will be 100% honest here folks. The next step past what happened to me last night would have been right out of a scene from a Nazi or Communist movie. If you think I am joking .... well I hope you try and do something nice this week and become the target of an officer who's only goal is to belittle you and control you with force, and the removal of your money openly acknowledging that is what he is doing and telling you ... your screwed.
Attitude adjustment tickets.... I love that... Apparently when a cop has a bad attitude and they go off on a ticket spree ... they are writing attitude ajustment tickets right? What is the idea again.... oh yea after writing enough tickets and f**king with enough people the officer can go home feeling powerful and satisfied... What a wonderful method for attitude adjustment.
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James
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 9:50am |
By the way... I want to know if I have grounds for a lawsuit here are the facts.
- I was only given 30 seconds to provide proof of Insurance. Is there really a time limit to provide proof of insurance?
- I did not block any vehicles on the road, the first car to approach while I was in the road was an officer and he was not required to stop as I had moved my van well before he arrived. If no one was blocked is that really blocking the road?
- You say an officer can pick and choose who he helps. But Leaving the scene of an accident is illegal is it not? How many cars are required to have an accident? What is an accident? The other car ended up blocking the road for over 30 minutes while we worked to get him free. Isn't there some legal obligation to serve tickets to anyone violating a law?
- What constitutes descrimination? Would it not be an accurate statement to say the very worst type of descrimination a police officer could exhibit would be the selection of canidates soley based upon who does not need assistance and who does not need help.
I want to know how I can personally file a lawsuit against either King County or the individual officer.
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Chuck e fresh
Master Poster
Post Jester - Round Tres
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 10:22am |
Welcome to the cruel world. I could really dig my teath into this one !! But it will have to wait untill I get back from the river ! I feel for ya James. I can only say one day the people will lead and the so called leader's will have to follow. The insecure power hungry and in my eye's the weak ass jerk off's people put so much faith in will only have to live with thee own action's. Lawsuit's just cost people and you more money. Expect to get hassled more by the police or get less help from them if you go for a lawsuit. P.Defender's are the way to go if you do don't pay some chump that works for the court system to do nothing for you when public defender's have nothing to loose. Our system and most society's suck and have sucked throughout time. Cop's are an organized gang no better than the mafia or those chump punk tag gangs spraying poorly drawn pieces of the alphabet ! Look ahead not behind. it might be hard but let it go keep helping people like the genuinly good natured person you are ! Don't let there negativity turn you positve energy into that cycle. I'd sugest next time saying yes sir thank you for upstanding service too our society and tax payer's money. Wich translates to fuck you officer you punk ass biatch !! I say move too Norway , France or Canada if your jetting. I hope not cause I'd miss paddling with you and just because some bully that got teased in school that happened to somehow not get his parent's gun and pull a columbine when he was growing up, is now got a badge and can decide when ever he feel's like taking out his anger problem or his low self estiem issues on good citizens like yourself ! Let it go , these are your test's in life. It's pass or fail bro ... I'm outty. Peace.L & H !!! Think paddling..... I only read your first post so if I'm just saying what's allready been said or if i'm just fueling the fire then....... F-yeah, let freedom ring !!!
Edited by Chuck e fresh - 04 Dec 2007 at 9:55am
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There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!!
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Larry
Super Looper
Mr. Generosity
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 10:27am |
I never said all cops were bad, although........
ALL cops are corrupt! And before you get on your high horse, Wiggins, Have you ever not given someone an infraction (or not received one yourself) that was fully deserved, simply because that person (or you) was a police officer. Look it up, THATS CORRUPTION!! Usually it goes much deeper than that and I have plenty of examples, but I'll rest my case with that.
All cops are a**holes! They have to be to perform certain aspects of they're jobs. But most cops have lost the ability to turn it on and off caus' it's just easier to be an a**hole all the time.
It is the nature of men to abuse power, perceived or real.
Does this make all cops bad?
James, A judge is always going to side with the police officer. It doesn't matter the reasons, If you don't have absoloute proof that you did not commit the infractions your screwed. What happened to innocent before proven guilty? A judge even told me that in a traffic court it does not fall on the state to prove that I did it, but on me to prove that I didn't. That seems unconstitutional to me especially given a traffic ticket can screw up your life almost as much as a criminal record these days.
Wiggins is probably right, James. Having me (or anyone like me) there may not help your case. But you know that I can hold my tounge when I need to, Unless I am really pissed off. And nothing pisses me off more than s**t like this.
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James
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 10:52am |
I appreciate it all and just wanted to say thanks. Heres my latest. Wiggins I appreciate your help, honestly your tips and advice are exactly what I need so I can best prepare myself. Chuck, as much as I want to let it go, well I can't. This has to be settled in my mind. I have to give our system a chance to work even in the most extreme cases. I ain't gonna move this day but I will still hold my tongue on the fact that the outcome of this will play a factor in where I want to raise my children and spend my life. I am not going to split but it makes me want to in other words. Larry thats some stout fact. I can't agree more. Here is what I have done. I have downloaded a form from King Counties Sheriff website. This is the complaint section. I will fill it out in detail and mail one copy to the address listed on the form. One copy I am hand delivering to this officer's supervisor. I am also going to sit down and request this supervisor listen to my concerns as a fellow service member and grounded citizen concerned for the future of his community. I will contest the ticket, request what wiggins has suggested and make a good list of witnesses that were invovled as we had plenty and everyone was very shocked at the outcome.... One witness even offered to pay for my ticket after seeing the event. Thanks again and please don't hesitate to keep helping me out here ... I need it!
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Kiwi
McNasty
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 11:17am |
Damn that sucks,
Last weekend my friends and I ran around in speedos barely on the Capitol campus (in Oly) and got stopped by a cop, he threatend to take us to jail, (we are all 15) and was a total jackass, WHATS WRONG WITH A SPEEDO?
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Ryan
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 1:02pm |
Sorry to hear that James. What BS!
I'm willing to help out in any way.
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water wacko
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 4:04pm |
Wiggins, I'm curious what would have happened if James had whipped out a video camera the instant he felt an "attitude adjustment" was coming, and then explained matter-of-factly he was videoing the "transaction" between him and the officer for proof in court. I know it would certainly not help the quiet officer's attitude, but legally speaking, is James within his rights to do such a thing if he is not trying to "insight a crowd", "disrespect authority", or "hinder an investigation"?
I think when it comes down to it we are all just people and everybody has bad days and at one point or another everybody abuses the power they have. I feel the same way you do, dude. The system is broken. Personally, I think the world will always be how it is, or at least it will take millenia to be repaired. Everybody has shit and we're all trying to make the best of it. Corruption is world wide. How does the fixing begin? Beat them at their own game and take 'em to court. I'm with you, James.
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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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Camrun
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 5:25pm |
James you start out saying that this situation could determine your choice of staying in this country or not. Well with the current state of things and the fact that I have 2 sons who will be draft age in a few short years, we have the backup residence in BC.
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James
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 5:30pm |
For those that want the facts not my opinon or the officers here they are... This will hopefully get some attorney's or officers here to help me with understanding the infractions my rights and what I need to prove.
Hard To read from my copy. Citations RCW 46 ?5 - Una NDC Motor Vehicle on Roadway $124.00 RCW 46.30 - No Insurance $550.00
(See Notes) Officer was Deputy J Eshom
Facts that can be verified by the video in the squad cars. 1. I was pulling a vehicle out of a ditch and only in the road for 30-45 seconds. All while no cars where around. The video will show them approaching as I am pulling over.
2. I only was given 30 seconds to provide my insurance. I was seperated from my car and unable to search within the time alotted... I found it afterwards and will have additional originals to offer the court and proof I was insured during the time.
3. My vehicle was not unattended.. I was with it at all times until told to step away from it by the officers. Which the video and audio will show I was more than complaint at all times, even when the officer began to search it and look for other ticketable offenses. I stayed put and quiet only answering when asked and just looking to get the ticket and leave.
I will get testimonies from folks that were there but I want to find out how to get copies of the audio and video from the squad cars too.
J
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Pixie
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 6:40pm |
James,
Sorry dude. That whole scenario sounds messed up. Especially since you were just trying to help a fellow citizen. I'm glad you have witnesses.
I'm not a lawyer but I know that you have longer than 30 seconds to show proof of insurance. The first, and only, time I have ever been pulled over...I had an expired insurance card. I had current insurance but forget to put the new card in my wallet. In any case, I took the info to the courthouse the next day and they dismissed the lack of insurance ticket immediately. So, you shouldn't have a problem with removing that charge.
I suppose if you have witnesses to confirm that your vehicle was unattended, you should be able to get the other charge dismissed. In any case, this doesn't change the fact that there are police officers out there that are on an obvious power trip. Maybe talking with their supervisor is a good idea...but I would try to go in as level-headed as possible. I would guess that you would need a lawyer to get a hold of the audio/videotape from the officer's car.
Lastly, I would hope that the cop-bashing is kept to the officers in this incident specifically. While I agree there are too many bad eggs out there, is it fair for people to slam all of them? Especially since one of your friends (Wiggins?) offered you some advice on how to rectify this whole mess. I'm sure he's thinking it comes with the territory; but this is a whitewater forum after all.
Good luck with everything. Hope your shoulder is doing better.
Pixie
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RemAcct2
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 7:27pm |
Nothing I can add to this, other than commenting on the sad state of our society, where someone trying to help gets in trouble. If you get a fair judge, you should be able to challenge the ticket, though fair judges in king county are a rarity.
I should mention that the legal system can be your friend. There are lots of nice ways to harass folks (police included) who wrong you using the legal system.
I also think there is a substantial difference in the demeanor of law enforcement once someone leaves king, pierce, and snohomish counties. Think red and blue counties...
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franzhorner
PP Junkie
outdoors music woodwork
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 7:47pm |
Good Luck james! I myself am very weary of police officers. Its seems to me that their "protecting and serving" is questionable at best in most situations. The sick thing is that some people actually like busting other people. They like their job. It gives them a sense of satisfaction and delight. I have had cops be great to me and I was actually happy to have them around a couple of times.
We had a similar instance in college with some young officers. They "busted" our party after a sober underage designated driver got a flat tire. They were changing the tire and the cops stopped and harassed my friends and used the drunk 21 year olds being with a sober 20 year old as probable cause to come in our house. My former Force Recon marine roomate became upset. Mace was used. They ransacked our house looking for people and drugs. They never found me and the drugs....Suckers!!! My pregnant roomate who was sober said the cops stunk of liqour and were drunk too. My Marine buddy got charged with everything from public drunk to assaulting a police officer. In the end they couldn't show up to the hearing as they themselves - ALL 3 arresting officers - were in prison for different infarctions. one had beat his woman with his pistol.....
All charges were dropped and my friend got an apology from the police department...
Go to court dude!! I bet those cops won't even show up and all your charges will be dropped.
This story only deepens my hatred for the kind of folk that get into law enforcement. I understand there are good folks who become cops but the profession itself breeds situations like James' way way way way to often....
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MORE RAIN PLEASE
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Wiggins
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 8:45pm |
Holy crap, I should have checked this earlier! This will be a long one. I am going to break this into two posts. The first one will be the help James info.
Since you have not been charged with a crime, but an infraction you do not have a right to a attorney. You can get one yourself, but the public defender’s office will most likely not represent you.
"Attitude Adjustment" tickets/arrests (which is a name some smartass cop came up with) are when a officer writes a ticket or an arrest that they would not have otherwise due to someone's perceived bad attitude. Usually the person being dealt with is guilty of some sort of violation, but it is simply something that the officer would otherwise ignore. The problem with fighting these types of tickets is that while they are technically illegal, you have to show that the officer was punishing you to be vindictive.
One way you can do this is to request copies of the officer's last ten, twenty, fifty, etc. tickets and affidavits to determine how often he cuts people a break. Examples of this would be writing someone for going 35 in a 25 MPH zone when they were going 45, or citing someone for only one violation when the officer observed more. This information should be documented somewhere on the affidavits. If he generally cuts people some sort of break (and most officers do) it opens the door for you to question his motivation for being strict with you. Also look to see if he commonly pulls people over and cites them for the same violations on your citation. This mainly comes into play when officer's stop junk cars expecting to get drugs, a warrant, or something else other than the reason they stopped the car. This is a type of profiling/discrimination and is illegal. What happened to you is a bit trickier to fight because it was not profiling, but more of a harassment issue.
The no insurance ticket sounds like the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard. There is no time limit for how long you have to provide your proof of insurance as long as you provide it to the officer upon request. I have waited as long as ten minutes while a driver went through their car. The current training from the CJTC (academy) says that you are to wait a reasonable amount of time before returning to your car to write the citati
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dave
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Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4226
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Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 8:46pm |
It all goes back to the 60s, those darn VW vans and the relationship they have to the hippie generation. Cops just automatically assume your a hippie and want to give it to you when they see you. The man is sticking it to you because your in a VW van! Power to the people James Jr.!
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