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Tobin
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   Topic: Paddles
Posted: 23 Nov 2007 at 11:12am |
I wanted to get some opinions about Werner paddles. I use an AT-4 10* feather.
I am on my 3 replacement paddle, and dont really trust the thing.
My question is about he foam core blades? Is it worth the money? Do they hold up? I have used one on a limited basis, I really liked the feel of it, but the reviews seem to be mixed.
My alternative is a standard carbon blade, in either case I am looking at the ShoGun, or the Powerhouse, which leads me to my next question. Blade size, my AT is about 695+/- cm3 The Werners are 680 and 720 respectivley. I am fighting some shoulder issues and after talking ot Dave yesterday, wondering if a smaller blade might not be a bad thing?
Any and all wisdom / heresay / trash / smack / retarded observations / general thoughts, are all welcome. Its a big investment, so I wanna hear all angles.
Edited by newtobin - 23 Nov 2007 at 11:14am
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jblum
Big Boofer
Don Blumin Looper
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Posted: 23 Nov 2007 at 11:37am |
Tobin,
With your shoulders, you should go with the smaller for sure. I use the larger and after a few weeks without paddling, it definatley works me pretty good. Its also bad because if you brace wrong, rather than sinking your blade, you´ll sink your shoulder.
As far as foam core, I paddled a Double Diamond for 3 years, and broke 3 blades. Werner was great about replacing them for me, but after the third one they wouldn´t give me another, and switched me out (free of charge! they rock!) for a new paddle without the foam core. Especially for Creeking and River Running, the carbon blades have served me VERY WELL for the last 2 years without breaking, tough as nails. The blades are a bit smaller than I started with (expected over time) but I´m sure they´ll last a few more years if not longer.
The foam core (as far as I can tell) is only advantageous for a few things:
1) Flatwater loops, its like holding the edge of a pool in a bow stall
2) Hole riding in a really foamy pile, they float really well
3) Looking cool, who doesn´t like a black and silver paddle that everyone knows is more expensive than the boat you´re paddling?
Verdict: Save yourself the money and buy a fiberglass or carbon blade that will last longer, break less, and be more versitile for everything (except points 1,2, and 3 above).
I´m sure there are a bunch of foam core users out there who will say I'm full of crap and that foam core is the only way to go. I would have said the same until I got rid of mine (I didn´t want to at the time). Now, I would never go back considering all the factors (price, durability, ect...). If I had the $$, I would buy a foam core for playboating and a carbon for creeking, which is ideal if you can afford both. If not, go with the carbon.
Hope you´re well bro.
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huckin harms
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Posted: 23 Nov 2007 at 12:17pm |
Hey Tobin,
here's my 2 nickels....
Been using Werner for over three years now. I have used AT's for several seasons and so feel qualified to comment on this.
First, I am very partial to Werner. All bias. They make a great paddle.
Second, AT's are not bad paddles.
One has served me very well and is at least 3 years old. It's a bent shaft carbon fiber Twist (small girly blade). I use it most all the time esp. on while creeking. The smaller blades saved my shoulders after switching from the larger form core AT blades (echo Blum's comments). I think the carbon fiber blades are more durable then the foam cores, hence the reason for creeking with that paddle. When a time comes to upgrade (hopefully someday soon), I would get another just like it (maybe next blade size up).
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ashleygoesdisco
PP Junkie
Princess Sparkle Horse
Joined: 12 May 2007
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Posted: 23 Nov 2007 at 9:29pm |
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I love foam core blades... =)
But I HHHHHHHATE Werner. AT 2 Flexi baaaabbyyyy.
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Ashley Duffus
Well behaved women rarely make history.
www.naiyadays.blogspot.com
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water wacko
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Team Jackson
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Posted: 23 Nov 2007 at 9:43pm |
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I like the pistol grips of the AT's. I have had a number of AT's and I like the AT2 Flexi best. I don't really care whether the blades are foam or not, but I HATE those little frickin' shards of carbon and fiberglass in my hands. I use a 194 30 deg, but I'm gonna try a 196 for creek and 191 for play. We'll see what happens.
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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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STLboater
PP Junkie
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Posted: 23 Nov 2007 at 11:38pm |
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i've been paddling my werner for 5+ years, fiberglass blades all the way. Although she is an ugly bitch, she is reliable and plays nice.
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Kayak Academy Whitewater Instructor
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Jeff
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Posted: 27 Nov 2007 at 4:21pm |
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I would give my vote to Werner over AT any day. I had a very dissapointing experience with AT, as in the shaft snapped clean and they wouldn't warrenty it, even though it was only 4 months old. I call BullS*it!!!! So I ponied up and got one of the new Werner Sidekick paddles and love it! It is the same blade design as the player, only slightly larger. I like the extra bite that I get (and the snazzy blue color of the blades)with the bigger blades (but then again, my shoulders aren't hurtin..yet) You might want to check out the Player. You can also get it in a smaller diameter shaft.
Edited by Jeff - 27 Nov 2007 at 4:22pm
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"What could possibly go wrong?"
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Ryan
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Posted: 27 Nov 2007 at 4:45pm |
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I bought a Werner player last year and absolutely love it. I have no reason to try anything else. It is my only paddle and use it for play and creeking.
I decided on the carbon blades instead of foam core for 2 reasons. It is cheaper and I don't have to worry about them cracking, etc.
Mine is a 15 degree and really helped me learn to cartwheel and bow stall. I can't say how awesome the paddle is, I love it!
I also take pride in supporting Werner since they are based in Sultan, WA. You gotta represent a local company especially when they make an incredible product that is loved around the world. Well, as long as it's not made in China.
I have had shoulder problems in the past including surgery. The player is good for me. I've had some trouble with my shoulders being sore after paddling but nothing serious.
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dragorossinw
WW Industry
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Posted: 27 Nov 2007 at 6:35pm |
Every paddler needs to go for what feels best for them. Being in the industry for years, I can say, I have paddled just about every brand, blade shape, offset, and material a paddle comes in. I too have shoulder issues, but still use a large power face style blade. Small blades are great for shoulder porblems. I too got tired of breaking my sticks and being without for a couple weeks while they get replaced.
I have used several foam cores, broke several foam cores.
I have used several wood cores, broke several wood cores.
I have used several wax cores, broke several wax cores.
I have used several full carbon, glass, even kevlar.....all broken
For the past few years, I have come to love the composite (plasic w/ fiber reinforcement) pressure molded and/or injection molded blades with carbon bent shafts....let me tell you, they rock. I own 5 paddles like this, and broke one - when I ran it over with my truck, and only the shaft broke. I even have my orriginal, from RIOT- ten years ago. The down side to this style is a little added weight, but they still have a nice swing to them. The two companies I would look into is H2O, and RIOT. Both are very similar in durability.
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Tony Z
dragorossinorthwest@yahoo.com
www.nookiekayaking.us
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www.donkeyfIip.com
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Tobin
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Posted: 27 Nov 2007 at 10:12pm |
Did Riot stop making paddles?
I am leaning towards the Werner Powerhouse or Sherpa. There is something to be said for a paddle that I cant find anyone to say anything bad about.
The choice between the 2 blade sizes is whats got me cornfused. I know a smaller blade will help your shoulders out, especially since I am NOT a graceful paddler. That said, since I rely on every ounce of power I can get outta my blades, I am concerned about making the adjustment to a smaller blade size.
I don't know the dimentions of my AT, but it is about an inch longer in blade, than my Werner Player. I am guessing about 700 cm's?
This puts me directly between the two options I am looking at. I am not a tech geek that sweats every dimension and line. But I want to like my paddle.
My new question is for people that have gone to smaller blades, was the transition difficult? Do you think its worth the loss in power?
Oh, and thanks everyone for the info so far! I appreciate it!
SYOTRB
Edited by newtobin - 27 Nov 2007 at 10:30pm
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Tobin
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Posted: 27 Nov 2007 at 10:29pm |
One other question that someone brought up and has me at a loss.
I was told that a light feather will increase strain on your shoulders?
WTF is a feather for anyway? I use a 10 degree, when I switched from a 30 it felt so much more comfortable to use.
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Weide
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Posted: 28 Nov 2007 at 8:59pm |
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I rock the Powerhouse. Well, I don't rock, but the Powerhouse does. It has a larger blade than the Sherpa, Player or Sidekick. It blew out of my truck on I-90 and is no worse for wear. I am solidly in the Werner camp.
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dragorossinw
WW Industry
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Posted: 28 Nov 2007 at 10:28pm |
Feather...lets see, its science. The old standard 45* was designed for wind cut resitance, the 10* for faster reaction in holes, and the 30* seems to be the closest to the natural rotation of your body's core. When you twist or rotate you body, and your arms are fixed on an object (paddle), your arms will naturaly rotate and counter rotate to the possition of your torso. I read long ago the average wrist rotation in this motion is 22-26*. Does that make any sense, or am I babbling something that only sounded smart in my head? FYI, take a batch of paddles, and you will have a 3* or so deviation between them, a 30* paddle could really be a 28-32*.
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Tony Z
dragorossinorthwest@yahoo.com
www.nookiekayaking.us
www.dragorossi.com
www.donkeyfIip.com
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