Edited by water wacko - 08 Nov 2007 at 8:52pm

Thanks for the info. I was looking at the Kokatat gore tex suit. Guess thats the one I'll go with. Since its the offseason I'm thinking I'll hit the pools and maybe try to rent a few different boats to see what I like. One more thing when spring rolls around what are considered top of the line in the way of schools? providing they don't interfere with my race schedual I may look to try a couple to get me going. I'm an instructor for a different sport that I love and thus I am a firm believer in good instruction and a firm grip of the fundamentals.  Thanks for the input guys!

ok will do. pm replied to tobin. Thanks.

Palms look pretty damn nice to me as far as dysuits go.

Oh, and get a pee zipper in your dry suit.  No brainer.

Worth the extra cash the first time you have to go pee... so I hear.  I still don't have a dry suit.

Riot Inferno???? what?

Like always KTW's pushin the house gear. If ya gotta do it at least push the air/flair thats a way better boat than the inferblow. I love my air 55. Well its toast now but my little waSabi was qualiTy!!

Well for me I'm thinking I'll probably be looking for an all arounder. Something predictable and maybe a little forgiving for a novice boater. Thanks to all for the good imput. I want to start with something a little confidence inspiring. I wont have any issues with getting multiple boats to suit multiple needs as I (hopefully) advance.

I happen to like Jackson boats and think the Fun series works well for beginners. Just a gentle reminder, though, those who are sponsored should make that sponsorship clear in their posts IMO.

Well, you've got two PP members on Team Riot (or is it two Team Riot members on PP?) - kayaktheworld and his brother lazaruslong1108... Maybe you oughta see what their take is on Riot in the PNW. Of course one of them is theoretically about done eating breakfast at 12,000 feet on the Mekong river right now - so that part of the conversation might need to wait a while...

Or you could just start nudging the local shops.
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In the interest of that full disclosure thing, you could say I'm proud to be affiliated with both of said paddlers.   

Edited by spindrift - 07 Nov 2007 at 8:46pm

Hey Dave/KTW, am I crazy or weren't you representing Jackson recently?  I forget.

James, what happened to your shoulder?

WW, let's be clear - you are sponsored to sell the product. Claiming otherwise is BS. Simply put, you are provided with free or discounted gear in order to motivate you to pitch the product and to compensate you for doing so. This is true of all sponsored athletes. Period. Hence the importance of full disclosure.

Now you may believe in the product you choose to affiliate yourself with. And that's the best of all possible worlds. It is great when people believe in the products they are affiliated with. But don't "BS" folks about the inescapable foundations of that relationship. If you don't want to deal with that, don't take the compensation from them.

I'll avoid putting words in anyone else's mouth & will speak only for myself. I've plunked my $$ down on no small number of Jackson boats the past few years (several family members have been paddling them). I have to say that IMO Jackson Kayaks should be ashamed of themselves with respect to their quality and their non-responsiveness wrt same. Out of the boats family members have owned (both retail and pro deals), one was destroyed in under 4 weeks of daily but reasonable use, one is in questionable condition after only a short period of moderate use, and the outfitting in a couple of them failed very prematurely (one after only two weeks use on the Grand Canyon).

EJ has personally seen two of the failed boats and has done bubkas about them. One he claimed was due to abuse (yeah, lots of sharp rocks to gouge your boat on during 4 spring trips on the Wenatchee play run...) and one he said would be taken care of (it literally was being held together by duct tape). Nothing happened. Why don't you ask him about whether or not there are plastic issues with the SuperStars and ask him how they've dealt with those... I think I can answer that though - he went paddling while leaving his customers hanging.

We went to great effort to get Riot boats shipped here before lazaruslong1108 headed for the Himalayas - because we felt taking a single current production Jackson boat would be unsafe. Simple as that. And the honest truth. In general, my family liked the designs, fit, comfort, and adjustability of the Jacksons - but the overall poor quality means we'll never send another penny their way. This is a pretty major turn around from a paddling family that was initially very excited by the boats and was even willing to forgive one or two issues.

All that aside - if you are proud to be associated with Jackson, why not just make that crystal clear. Then pitch/defend them with everyone fully informed.


Edited by spindrift - 07 Nov 2007 at 10:06pm

That last little bit was a little spiteful... Brett you know I love ya. Let me put it in a different scene. If I were to start talking about PP and how it was the best site on the internet, then I said I am un-bias and I just want to help new boaters get situated in a good community for posting and that I would recommend any board or community, its just that PP is the best.

Lol ... well that would be a lie. I want to rule the world, I want to force the White House to its knees and into re-form, I want to become a supreme dicktatortot that could in one motion force everyone on the planet to play glowing frisbee... just for the change it will have in their life!!! Of course that would be the bad example because everyone knows the benefits of Glowing Frisbee... By the way I got in a session this last weekend and it was superb... Franz you would have been in heaven!