This project is going into a remote region of northern BC. Did anyone know that Ledcor is really all over the US doing projects everywhere from CA to WA to CO and they are all pretty invasive and there is a lot of destruction going on for ore and other materials.

J

i'd like to use that giant drill on the ceo of ledcor

hippies

What is your point, Leaf?

I think what leif is trying to say is that this is a futile arguement. I just figured it was a good investment opportunity to pass along. The price will keep dropping for another few weeks before it turns and goes wild again. One the pipelines have made their official orders and the raw ore is in demand it will be $$$ again. Well several of the largest oil pipelines in the world are being repaired and guess what the announcement was earlier this month. The pipelines are corroding because the alloy's are too soft that make up the pipe. So what do they use... Well Tungsten is nice and strong but really spendy... Ah Molybdenum... Great substitute with almost the same weight and melting point...

So my question is this.... Is it wrong to invest in Molybdenum?

It is going to help make our oil pipelines stronger and leakless which is good, but it is also the cause of some pretty serious devastation to the enviornment...


J

thanks for reminding us...

I am just waiting for the post "what does oil have to do with kayaks"...

Ah, this conversation and others recently on PP reminds me of an old joke....

Q: What is the difference between a real estate developer and an environmentalist??
A: A real estate developer wants to build a house in the woods whereas an environmentalist has a house in the woods.

Unfortunately, everyone is a hypocrite (except me ).  They want to complain about some type of development or other but they somehow justify in their own minds their own decisions (i.e. driving that 4WD to the put-in 4 hours away; living in a suburban house and commuting to work; buying clothing made by 3rd world laborers; cooling your 15000 sq ft mansion in Tennessee but buying carbon offsets; using google as your search engine; whatever). 

Now then, if you really want to get back to nature, fight against "the man" and the entire capitalist infrastructure, I have just the solution for you - see http://www.freegan.info  Of course, if you do this, you might end up in the hospital with god only knows what type of virus or bacteria - and even "the man" might not be able to save you.  But you'll go to heaven (a bit prematurely) knowing that you were a good person.


Oh yeah, and what does oil have to do with kayaks?


Edited by arnobarno - 05 Sep 2007 at 10:07pm

At my work we use molybdenum (molly) to make navigational sensors that go into everything from airplanes and missles, to oil and mining drills, to those smart chips in your car, or Cadillac if you have the means

Maybe one day Leaf will realize he's no smarter than the rest of us and a conservative republican affiliation will not always save his ass.    ...okay I'm done

Well, as many of you know from previous posts, I'm a libertarian and have a pretty free-markets, small government, and individual liberty bias.  So I'm not against development, per se, or oil, or even tweekers (until they tweek someone other than themselves).  With that intro...

The amount of oil we'd save if we recycled our boats is de minimis.  Not saying it is a bad thing to do but let's face it, you are burning magnitudes more oil driving to/from the put-ins than you'll recover from that recycled boat.  It might make you feel good about yourself but in the grand scheme of things, it is mouse nuts.

Everything has trade-offs that are not easily analyzed in context a priori. 

Just a couple of examples...

In the 60s, DDT ended up being banned practically worldwide because of the believed effects on the environment.  And, there is no doubt it was overused in applications in which there are alternatives products that produce similar results without the harmful environmental impacts.  But, it was (and is still) the most effective means of killing mosquitos and 10s of millions of people have - and continue to - needlessly die of malaria because of overly strict regulations.

In the 70s and 80s, the environmental movement fought hard against nuclear energy for a variety of reasons.  But, people's desire for energy is virtually insatiable so w/o nuclear, other forms will be used - fossil fuels, alternative, etc.  Remember, many people (not kayakers, of course) consider hydro "alternative" and a much better alternative than fossil.  Well, now that same environmental movement is starting to come back around to nuclear because the alternatives (in their opinion today) are worse.


My point here is that the issues are complex and that it is easy to assume evil intentions on the part of the business owner, politician, environmentalist, Leif, whoever, etc. when the reality on the ground is often much more complex.  My cynical (libertarian) view is that the more government involvement, the more screwed up it will get.

So, if you really support the environment, and want to preserve it, IMHO, support organizations like The Nature Conservancy, The Trust for Public Land, etc.  These guys buy up the land and preserve it forever.  Once you own it, you can stop development, dams, or anything else you don't like (even perhaps stop Leif from putting-in if you so desire).


Edited by arnobarno - 06 Sep 2007 at 9:41am

I certainly agree with you.  I only wanted to point out some of the hypocrisy of the statements.  The oil used in the kayak industry is minimal compared to other industries.  Ultimately, we need to be wise in balancing conservation with the needs of our society; balancing impact with growth.

The comments I made about computers and electronics in general are relevant, though.  Between non-recycled waste disposable electronics (i.e. all electronics these days) and power draw from computers, video game consoles, etc. needlessly left on, and power draw from under-utilized over-powered datacenters, there is a serious problem.  Green companies are a major source of venture capital in the Northwest these days - I see 2-4 deals a month go through in this area.  Look for server virtualization firms (such as VMWare and the new seattle startup Illumita) to do well, given that they help consolidate servers and better manage data center power utilization by allowing firms to use fewer servers.

I am, at heart, a libertarian, as well.  While I am a member of the Republican party, I believe in smaller government, fewer regulations, etc.  At one time, I considered joining the libertarian party, but realized more can be done influencing the Republican party in my small way towards the libertarian ideal, though I certainly don't support the zero-government anarchist free-for-all that some loosertarians (credit to Michael Medved for that one) support.

As for Brett's comments, I am not sure how being a Republican changes the status as to whether my ass is or is not saved.   I defend my own ass, proudly, and do not look to party affiliation to save my ass for me.  I take the defense of my ass very seriously, and as Thomas Jefferson said, "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty", or evidently in my case, my ass...