That's too funy Erik...

Nice to see so many people up the Ashlu this weekend! Thanks to Ashlu Festival, TRL, 49 Megawatts, ect... more people than ever are visiting the Ashlu.

I got news for you Leif...the whole reason you were paddling the Ashlu was because of work the Squmaish locals have done. Not Ledcor. I helped cut every trail into that river over the past three years. Access is more than just a road up the river valley and you would have no idea that the Ashlu was a good paddling destination without the work of paddlers putting this river on the map.   

I'm not the kinda person to come out and bash opions, but Leif is way of course here and speaking on such a limited knowledge base I can't help but chime in. And I can certaily guarantee he his making no friends with the locals up here with this post. I have a few points I would like to make.

1. Access has been an issue up the Ashlu. You can't go claiming these sorta things based on one trip to the Ashlu. Pure ignorance. Talk to others before you claim this stuff and post it publicly. Living up here and trying to access that river on a regular basis has been a different story. You just happened to hit a period when access has been pretty good. Many of us have worked hard at pushing the access issue this summer so it would improve in late August and September. Again something boaters have accomplished not Ledcor.

2. To think that the kayaking will be improved is a huge oversight on your part. The mine run is virtually being destroyed because a dam will now sit in the middle of the run and back up almost 2km, the mini-mine will no longer run after this season, and you obviously know nothing about the Box to post such poor comments. It takes lots of time paddling the Ashlu to understand all the runs, flows, and season.   

3. The issue is way bigger than the Ashlu and kayaking, so before promoting Ledcor's project to support what you like about kayaking on the Ashlu do your homework please. This project has huge impacts on grizzly bears, fish, and the greater recreation community. There are also concerns that have to do with who owns these water liscences long term and the revnue being created.

4. While you were busy posting ridicoulous comments about the Ashlu, a group of comitted boaters and community members were talking with Regional Power about the 125 megawatt project on the Ryan River today. Please withhold comments about how the boating community in BC is handling these issues until you have been involved with the process. Many people are working hard and professionaly on the issue. Your comments on how the Ashlu was handled are completely misguided.

5. While it may be hard for you to lobby from the states, your voice is being heard by AW on BC issues. Voice your concerns through AW...they are working on this issue as well. Again Leif...do your homework. AW is involved right now with education and consultation here in BC.

Please come paddle the Ashlu lots it is a great river. And if you want to piss off the locals up here who are working hard, post more comments on why Ledcor has made the Ashlu better.

Bryan

Dam!  Lighten up guys!  Like Tom said, we're all on the same side here.  The tone's pretty ugly in here......

Leif!!  Pipe down, dammit! 

wow ...

Keeping a lighter attitude would be great - but after the insults are slung the floodgates are open.  Amazing what one voice can achieve.

BC crew - I always want to be as welcome in your backyard as you are in mine.  

Me too.

I've always know this about Leif, one of the many reasons I try hard not to end up boating with him.  Sorry for the negative vibes.

I don't know anything about the politics around the Ashlu development or the run itself - except from what I've read in this thread.

And, I won't defend Leif's style of posting - he clearly isn't winning any friends.

But, I think that Leif and others are talking past each other a bit on this thread.  To me, it seems like Leif is talking about outcomes.  And, Bryan is talking about effort and impacts. 

And, it seems like all the effort that the folks up in BC put into fighting this project and all of the impact that this project is having on the river and on the environment, have still led to an outcome that nobody is happy about.  Clearly, whatever tactics were used to fight this development - for whatever reason - didn't lead to the outcome that the local boating community wanted.  It doesn't sound like this was for a lack of effort but the end result still needs to be faced and I don't think it is defeatist to try to learn from what worked or didn't work in this case and figure out how to fight the next fight.

So, Bryan (and others), I for one would be interested in understanding what you think could be done differently next time (on the Ryan or other rivers in BC or locally here) that you think would change the outcome for the better.


Edited by arnobarno - 28 Aug 2007 at 11:11pm

There is not any personal attacking going on here. Leif is basically lathering in chum before he goes for a dip on the great social reef.

Todd, Bryan, POW, and everyone else who thinks Leif is nuts can watch him continue on. Who cares!

The simple fact is that Leif took a trip up to BC and had a good time even though he did not Run any of the stuff he was setting out on. He had such a good time he wanted to share his experience with us through displaying his collection of knowledge from the trip. Thats his deal and how he communicates. Unfortunately he picked a topic that has many experts that by far surpass his level of understanding and background. I do it myself and I have seen others do it too, unfortunately this time it was regarding a matter that alot of people in BC, Seattle and other places find sensitive and important. This is in no doubt due to the work of Bryan, and many others so thanks for helping us become aware. I am not going to go into the sappy song over destruction in the woods because you all know the deal and should know what is good and bad.

I just felt like posting because I read this whole thread and wondered where it went wrong. Then I realized it didn't go wrong anywhere. This is what its all about. People don't agree on everything. We can't go through each post and find mistakes because they are going to be there. If you really want to help someone change their view get them off the side. Like maybe lets say Eric wanted to tell me I had a bad line or something. Instead of posting that shit for the world to see in standard then slo mo he could just hit me with a PM..mofo.. Or like last year at Thompson in stead of snapping on Leif I could have offered him a cube of butter and my breakdown. Thats what I am talking about resolutions because it what this whole thread is about. We want resolution to our problems.

So the first step is getting some new footage of me hitting a line. I am going to need a few editors and some good digital artists but I think we can do it. The next step is helping get Leif educated which is hard sometimes because he likes to commentate when he doesn't want to commemorate or collaborate. Were going to take that one in steps, so all you guys in BC can just kick back and take it easy knowing were workin down here on that one but without any promises.

WHAT?!?!  

 

Saying you won’t boat with someone is probably the worst thing you can say about someone on a kayaking forum!

 

What exactly constitutes a personal attack in your mind? 

Dan