Professor Paddle: Rand VS. Bungee
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megspk
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  Quote megspk Replybullet Topic: Rand VS. Bungee
    Posted: 12 Oct 2015 at 5:22pm
I need to invest in a new spray skirt.

I'm looking at the IR Klingon.

I want to hear options on Rand VS. Bungee. What do you think is best/better and why? Does one last longer than the other?

I probably won't be doing any massive waterfalls or epic class 5s, but I want a nice solid skirt to invest in. Let me know what you think!

Cheers,
Megan
A strong person and a waterfall always channel their own path. -Unknown

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megspk
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  Quote megspk Replybullet Posted: 12 Oct 2015 at 5:22pm
Oh yeah and some play boating with it too.....
A strong person and a waterfall always channel their own path. -Unknown

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Portage Bro
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  Quote Portage Bro Replybullet Posted: 12 Oct 2015 at 8:52pm
Amazing how a Seal rand fixed all my leaking boats.
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  Quote SOPBOATER Replybullet Posted: 12 Oct 2015 at 8:55pm
Rand, always, every time
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Dale
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  Quote Dale Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 5:49am
I like rand skirts.

Meryl just bought a Seals rand skirt, if you want to "demo" it.
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Slackkinhard
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  Quote Slackkinhard Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 6:44am
I'm interested in this topic. I only have experience with a bungee. I was told that the rand is harder to get on, especially when cold, and since I'm still a class III boater I wouldn't have any reason to spend the money for a rand?? 

 I don't know if it's my skirt, or maybe my boat just leaks
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Dale
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  Quote Dale Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 7:33am
Nearest I can tell, almost all boats leak at the fasteners. Being tight or having a rubber washer only rarely solves the problem. I've had new boats that leaked from the drainplug(I hate drain plugs).

If you want to make sure your boat doesn't leak, back out the fasteners enough to put a little Aquaseal or silicone on the threads, then tighten them back down. If you did a good job, not only will they not leak, they also will not come loose.

I know... I know... all you Jackson boaters don't have to worry about this.

and yes, rand skirts can be a booger in cold weather but not all rand skirts are made equal. I still have a Mountain Surf with the EZ-On rand that is plenty easy enough in the winter(and is still water tight after years and years of use). I haven't come across another rand skirt that is this easy to get on.

Anybody know of a rand skirt that is easy to put on your boat? Meryl's new Seals skirt isn't too bad, but it's nowhere near as stretchy as my old Mountain Surf.

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Mauler!
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  Quote Mauler! Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 7:35am
Skirtworks makes great rand skirts. If you don't want it hard to get on......don't order the tight fit. Plus they always told me to pay them later, after I recieved tbe skirt and was happy.
Bungees are for people that don't know any better.
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  Quote mikefromTX Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 7:37am
I have a IR Royale. It's the bees knees. I've had a perception rand as well, but it was pretty old when I got it. I used a Snapdragon for a while and the bungee skirts leak like a sieve, and will implode MUCH easier than the rand. If implosion is only a minor concern, you can get an implosion bar in a bungee skirt. If you want to keep your boat dry, the rand is the way to go. They can be extremely difficult to get on, depending on the fit. I sometimes struggle with mine (especially when dry or very cold). I would say, as far as lasting longer and such, for the price your run of the mill snap dragon is fine to balance economy and performance. I had mine implode in a class 5 rapid and bought the Royale the next day.
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Dale
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  Quote Dale Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 7:43am
Scuttlebutt is that Skirtworks is belly up. Website is down. I haven't tried the number.
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Mauler!
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  Quote Mauler! Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 7:43am
I hated the snap dragon I had on loan. It kinked all up when I was not in the boat.
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  Quote Mauler! Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 7:50am
God damn. I called the skirtworks #. It said they where out of the office until feb. 16......due to a family emergency.
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  Quote Ellingferd Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 8:47am
Snapdragon and IR are pretty much the only companies making good skirts now. I suppose there is Seals, and those are good as well. Bomber Gear is out of business again, but their skirts are also great. As for implosion, its not really a concern unless you are consistently running huge drops or your skirt doesnt fit your cockpit properly, or when playboating, but you should have an overthruster if you are plugging for loops on the regular. I've used Snapdragon, IR, and Bomber Gear. They all leak to various degrees, so I have a sponge which I view as a way to force myself to rest occasionally when surfing. When creeking, I never accumulate enough water to necessitate emptying until the end of the day. Again, skirt to cockpit fit is more important than anything. Buy a Snapdragon or IR and call it a day, both are up to running the gnarliest whitewater in the world.
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  Quote Dale Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 9:00am
Also, if you don't have a skirt tunnel on your drysuit/drytop, you will usually get a bit of water in your boat, especially if you roll a lot.
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  Quote megspk Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 11:15am
New IR skirt ordered! They have some great deals on CKS right now if anyone is in the market for gear! Thanks for all the info!
A strong person and a waterfall always channel their own path. -Unknown

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megspk
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  Quote megspk Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 11:21am
Originally posted by Slackkinhard

I don't know if it's my skirt, or maybe my boat just leaks


Even with my tunneled drysuit I could feel the water coming in all around the tunnel/deck attachment area. I switched to my other skirt which was too big for the boat and sure enough I was drier with that skirt despite the fact it wasn't the right size. But, I can also feel water coming in around the bungee when I playboat and water piles up on the front of my boat or I pearl.....LOTS of water in my boat then. NEXT step is silicone sealing my Mamba!
A strong person and a waterfall always channel their own path. -Unknown

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Ellingferd
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  Quote Ellingferd Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 11:26am
What drysuit do you have? Back zipper or cross the chest? Any cross the chest zipper drysuit will end up letting in more water to your boat because the zipper breaks the "seal" between the skirt and your body. This is not the case w/a back zipper or drytop. This is why Kokatat drysuits for playboating are always kind of a bummer in terms of water in the boat, unless you have a back zip model.
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  Quote tiziak Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 4:04pm
This just means it's not getting wet enough...   
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.

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  Quote tiziak Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 4:15pm
Rand all the way.

And. Preferably a super sick, local company that stands behind their product to an almost obscene level...

My 2cents
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.

Daniel Patrinellis
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  Quote ellsw121 Replybullet Posted: 13 Oct 2015 at 8:57pm
Snappy sell a rand now?
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  Quote Butchv Replybullet Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 7:27am
I am a fan of IR. I have found their skirts to be the driest. I use a rand for creeking and a bungee for playboating. I actually use the Kling-on that you mention above. It is super dry for me and I have found the extra neoprene strip to help with the dryness. I have used my rand skirt for playboating and did not notice much change.

I think you have made a good choice based on my testing.
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  Quote Fish Replybullet Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 11:52am
For whitewater, rand all the way. Bungee is easier to put on, but more likely to implode. Everyone is making rands these days including Snapdragon.
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  Quote chipmaney Replybullet Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 12:16pm
I am not a fan of IR due to multiple manufacturer defects and short lifespan. I have had much better luck with Seal, but never tried the snapdragon rand. Fish is correct, rand is far superior to bungee--n outcome resulting from simple physics. However, rand skirts do not fit well on certain (usually older) boats with a low combing (i.e., the rand is too thick to squeeze between the combing and the hull). If you paddle a modern boat, this issue will be unlikely to present itself.
sitting all alone on a mountain by a river that has no end
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  Quote mprussak Replybullet Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 3:27pm
I had a randed skirt beforehand, admittedly it was kinda small, but still good enough to figure out how I liked them. I'm honestly surprised with all the rand love, most people just simply don't need it. Will it work well? Hell yeah. Is it worth paying extra for?

If you're not paddling big water and don't run a big risk of implosion, probably not. Any skirt that fits poorly will leak, rand or bungee, and a randed skirt will fit a much smaller size range. My old skirt leaked through holes in the deck of my RX, but it also fit strangely around a screw on the lip of the kayak, so it leaked a bit through that, as well as occasionally getting stuck on it when I was trying to take the skirt off. On top of that it won't fit at all over my nomad's cockpit. On the other hand, my IR Kling-on is perfectly dry on both (although the randed would've been quite dry too if it wasn't for the beat up deck), which I'd really notice since I don't have a drysuit/dry pants.

We'll see how it holds up to the test of time, it's fairly new, but it's no fuss, fits well, easy to get on and off, I'm happy with it. It seems to me that if you're not boating hardcore stuff, fit is more important than construction, and you're gonna have a way harder time finding a randed skirt that fits well on multiple boats.
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  Quote H2Ohta Replybullet Posted: 14 Oct 2015 at 3:58pm
I just switched to a rand style skirt because I have a paddled a bungee style skirt for years and wanted something with out an implosion bar and I needed a smaller deck. There are pros and cons for both.
Pros:
- more implosion resistance - this is not just for Class V. I have seen implosions surfing Rodeo Hole on the Wenatchee upwards of 11,000 cfs and the old Grannies wave
- dry

Cons:
- harder to put on - this can be a big deal. Is there more of a chance of implosion or more of a chance you might have to put your skirt on one-handed in a micro eddy? I actually like that I have to be more deliberate and take my time in situations where my heart may be beating faster than normal but for some this may create anxiety. It seems to freak a lot of beginners our when a skirt is harder to put on. I think it's the feeling that it will be harder to get off when we swim, or that we are holding up the group when it takes a bit longer to put our skirt on.

Right now, the Klingon or Snappy EXP are two of the best bungee style skirts, IMHO.





Edited by H2Ohta - 14 Oct 2015 at 4:01pm
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