Agreed, Slick-

If you are going the "hardshell" route, it seems to me that you shoud have the benifits of the "Shell". I.E. in a hardshell kayak your legs are very very protected. Plastic sit-on-tops give you the awesome characteristic of a rigid hull. But not the benifit of a hardshell deck, because, there is no deck.

Personally, not only do I value having my legs and feet protected, but there are two other extremely valuable attributes both inside and outside of that deck:

*the outside of the deck is hydro dynamic. In other words, if you have strong paddling skills, you can still keep boating on that deck as if it was a hull while you are beyond 50% capsized. I am not confident that the lack of a deck will perform as efficiently in a similar, extreme example.

*the inside of the deck, and this is probably much more noteworthy of these two considerations, allows a way better fit. More parts of your lower body in contact with the interior of the kayak mean you wear the boat, and it essentially becomes your lower body. I typically teach kayak students about 7 key points of contact with which to "drive the boat". That's mostly to keep it simple. The way I outfit my boats I end up with more like 12-14. You can further dial this in and fine tune the comfort of these connecting points. Sit-on-tops and IK's fall short in this category simply because there isn't that all enclosing and therefore increased connection to the boat.

Now here's where (sorry IK lovers) I have to point out a few gross shortcomings of IK's that in my opinion make them inferior to the now more "traditional" plastic kayak:

*No one has truly inovated any designs for the IK concept in well over 15 yrs. Nope. Not in any truly meaningful way whatsoever. Someone should. Talking about the boat's design here. The SHAPE.

*No one has seriously upgraded the outfitting that connects the paddler to the IK. Sorry, lovers of the Stilletto (I'm about to piss off some raft guides for sure, but oh well fu*k 'em): The Stilletto with the old school style yakima foot pegs simply sucks. And the inflatable seat? It is a joke. The thigh braces are the least offensive of the three outfitting elements, but they could probably be way more effectively re-envisioned. How about a legit bulkhead footbrace, a legit seat with a backband, and better thigh braces that transfer more energy directly to the boat? O.k. so yeah, I admit it- now you are adding more hard parts and more weight, both generally undesirable, one of the major assets of an IK being its soft nature, lightweight, and packable.

To bring it back around to agreement w/ Slickhorn (while at the risk of being insulting regarding IK's in general), I think the hardshel sit-on-top is a poor blend of attributes. It is great for some circumstances where someone without a clue might want to just jump in and run some safe class III, but the IK and the hardshell are better for going beyond that superficial designation.

IK's are, as Slickhorn has rightfully pointed out in the past, a rather sophisticated answer to "open boating" for lots of reasons. Low water/mank friendly, and cargo capable just being a few.

I don't really see why that boat is any more offensive than an IK. I'd guess that once they molds are made it's cheaper to stamp those boats out than it is to make a decent IK. A lot of folks just don't have the time or the inclination to learn how to hardshell. Getting to the point where you have a good roll in whitewater can be seriously hard/impossible for a lot of people.

Having paddled the Torrent when it first came out, I can tell you without reserve that it was no where near as capable as the longer and narrower boats of the day. The ability to edge the boat makes a huge difference in last second corrections, and with that extra width, you just don't have the leverage. That being said, hard shell sit-on-tops are super fun and low maintenance. We recently bought an NRS Outlaw (IK) which has a fairly rigid planing hull (significantly different than every other IK out there), and I must say that it performs just as well, if not better than a sit-on-top. The Do-It-Now is certainly better than the Torrent, as it has a nice planing hull, but until you make a sit-on-top as narrow and low a seating position as a regular kayak, you just are not going to get the same performance characteristics. IK's and sit-on-tops are just different creatures with different purposes. Few people will take either down class IV or V, but they are wide, stable, and great for taking down class II and III with family and friends. The Do-It-Now looks like a fun boat and would not hesitate to buy one if I were in the market for such a craft. The rocker profile is just wrong for class V creeking, so don't expect it to be your new creek boat, but if you want something for splashing around with friends, I would consider it a good option. At $200 off, it's pretty attractive. Some people just will not like it no matter what. Haters gonna' hate.

Have fun and be safe out there.

-Eli

I am trying to find an IK to buy to take out family members and friends. i really like the IK maverick from NRS, but it is too expensive to buy as purely a loaner boat.  if anyone is selling one, let me know! 

I think the hardshell sit on top is a great learning tool for beginner boaters looking to get on the river, as well as for the friend who just wants to tag along on a play run. While it obviously doesn't have the same performance characteristics of a hardshell, it still gets people on the river, learning about whitewater.

The main advantage of the Do It Now over an IK is that you can literally do it now. There is no pump, no broken valves, no leaks, and no holes. You just get in, and go. I cannot even count how many times I've been getting ready for a run and the IK homies forgot their pump or left the seat to their boat in the shuttle car or some other trip inhibitor. A sit on top hardshell goes on the roof of the car, with all the other boats, and doesn't require any special equipment that team hardshell never even considers to be necessary.

When my kayak class participants don't have a roll, will never paddle hard whitewater, and ask what boat they should buy for class I-II, I always recommend a hardshell sit on top over an IK.

I don't want to get too into this discussion, but I would like to make one point:

There are no 'seats' in any IK. They are thwarts. They add stability to the boat and are not designed to be anything like the back band in a hardshell cockpit. The back band does not need to function like a thwart in a hard boat, obviously. An IK needs a thwart.

OK…I'll get into this…Slickhorn is right…this is fun


I learned to kayak in an IK while guide training with a company who had a fleet of them and I progressed quickly. My self rescue was and still is pretty darn solid. My point here is that I became very comfortable in a Stiletto and it was quite easy for me to get lots of time in running the Wenatchee, Sauk, Cispus and other class 3-4. The IK helped me become comfortable in the river, not just my boat. When I saw an ad in the for sale items in the SeattleTimes for 2 brand new Stilettos for $750 each, Hunter and I scraped it all together to buy them. We could then challenge ourselves on rivers not run commercially. So then I couldn't even think of learning a roll. All I could think of is what new rivers to run next. The others around me hard boating at the time seemed to be way more into play boating. That was probably just my own perspective tho. We went after it in our IKs and got on many Olympic Peninsula runs, Farmlands, Yellowjacket Creek…so…I just stayed in my comfortable boat…I always wanted to get a roll but it seems I was having too much fun. The next vessel I bought for myself was a catboat and so I just never learned a roll….

I understand that there is a whole new world of fun out there in a hard boat and I would like to learn someday but my body is getting more and more miles on it every day. Its not the years, its the miles!

I think if you are comfortable in an IK there is nothing wrong with rocking it your whole life. No shame at all.

At the take out for the Cheat a few years back I was taking out with my Stiletto and a girl asked me if I like my kayak better than a "real" kayak. My answer was that my boat was real and to prove it, she was welcome to touch it…

My most proud moment that I witnessed with a Stiletto was Adrian paddling one with a broken foot down the SF Salmon and Selway rivers last summer. He was wearing the boot and could not paddle a hard boat. He couldn't even scout the big rapids but he styled everyone of those gnarly rapids with absolute aplomb. I wanted Jim Sheflo himself to see that performance. Adrian would tell anyone, an IK is not just a boat for learning or commercial customers on class 2….



Here are some great features that are unique to an IK…

Ease of in and out
You can easily get in and out of an IK. This is great when running an unfamiliar river with the need for lots of scouting.

ELF boating
Lots of our early explored rivers in the state were first boated in IKs at low water. IKs don't bang on rocks like hard-shells

Swimming with an IK
Swimming while holding on to an IK is like having a huge life ring. Swimming while holding onto a hardshell even with float bags is like holding onto an out of control torpedo.

Ease of transport
No roof rack required



As far as design of boats goes, I would like to see a hardshell IK hybrid of some sort. If you could have the bottom of the IK tubes made of hardshell plastic attached to the rubber like rails, all the way to the tip, or even maybe covering the whole bottom of the boat: it would really help with the folding action that can come with a big hit on the tip of the boat. Surfing would also improve. This would negate the ease of transport…

I've always wanted a replacement floor for my IK that is made like a surfboard and shaped to the the bottom of my boat. A spot for a little padding in front of the thwart and I think that would increase the performance of an IK incredibly.


Fun conversation….

Three quick points:
1. If we believe everyone should hardshell, that's elitist and exclusionary to 99% of the population. Hardshells make class 2 scary to beginners. Class 2 should not be scary.
2. This boat is way better looking than a Torrent, and the first attempt since the Torrent at a whitewater SOT. It was designed to give more people a chance to get out on the water.   
3. None on this thread has paddled the Do-It-Now so this is all conjecture. It looks like an improved lightbulb from my perspective.

IK's would be superior in some situations, The Do-It-Now would be superior in others. Its all about the river + skills. It would be nice if more folks+ families out on the class 2 and 3 enjoying themselves in all kinds of craft. I used to see a lot more of that before the creekboat/playboat era. SUP is bringing that back. Just did the entire Salmon R. with total beginners on sup boards and they're now stoked. so if the plastic Sit on top gets more people out to see the river, I'm all for it. The river is cool.       

I've paddled both the Do it Now and Torrent. Also paddled several different IK's.
Performance wise, the hardshell SOT's far exceed any IK I've paddled. The Torrent is a pain to move from the car to river or portage for that matter (not sure why you'd be portaging with it though). Do it Now has better handles thus easier to carry. An IK is the boat of choice if you need to carry any distance or want something easy to travel with.
I've paddled the Torrent quite a bit the last several months while recovering from hip surgery. It's very comfortable and easy to get in and out of. It has also worked well kayaking with my son in his SOT. If/when he swims I can just pull him in mid-rapid then recover all his gear. It's a extremely stable boat (much more stable the DO it Now).
The Do it Now is probably more maneuverable than the Torrent, but they both perform surprisingly well.
SOT vs IK on big water - advantage SOT. I've had several friends hop in the Torrent for their first kayak experience and paddle the Wenatchee from Rodeo to Cashmere. It usually ends up with a swim or two, but the SOT punches holes much better than IK's.
Speed or paddling any distance (flatwater)- advantage SOT. The SOT have a better glide and maintain their speed better. We've paddled on lakes several times and the Torrent works great. It tracks better and will hold its speed better than an IK.
My son is paddling the Fluid Vaya (kids version of SOT) right now and he loves it. Fluid has put a lot into their SOT designs and do a good job at it.
All in all, I'd say it's a great option to have around for a friend to try kayaking out, but nobody is really going to get 'into' sit-on-top kayaking. If you want to kayak, just get a closed cockpit hardshell and learn to kayak. The SOT isn't really even a crutch, it more handicaps your ability to advance. Then again, if all you want to do is shoot down the Sky or Wenatchee a couple times a year it would probably work great. Especially if you're used to swimming...