Professor Paddle: ACA Certification vanlinelogistics.com Seattle Washington (WA) Warehousing & Order Fulfillment vanlinelogistics.com Seattle Washington (WA) Warehousing & Order Fulfillment vanlinelogistics.com Seattle Washington (WA) Commercial Relocation vanlinelogistics.com Warehousing & Order Fulfillment
Professor Paddle Professor Paddle
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
Home Calendar Forum FSBO Gallery PPages Reviews Rivers Links
  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch
Whitewater Forum
 Professor Paddle : General : Whitewater Forum
Message Icon Topic: ACA Certification Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 2
Author Message
jP
Rio Banditos
Rio Banditos
Avatar
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4404
  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 17 Dec 2013 at 4:52pm
Ok, maybe I over reacted a little, maybe I enjoyed it

But you gotta admit that torchin' a little flame to this thread doesn't necessariy make it ovely "serious", but it will certainly bring more people in to say what might be on their own minds, so maybe a little spark of drama isn't entirely bad. I mean what I said on a wider, figurative scale though it put you in the line of fire (Friendly fire), T-Pot. Its just a trend I've observed for years ("Bro Brah" style over legit substance). So I apologise for my harsh words. The beauty of appologies though is I still got to say what I wanted to, because I think its fair to shed light on other aspects of this discussion now. So if you will all allow me to back paddle just a little on that, maybe we can still ferry this raft into a more productive line of discussion.

Totten, while your response is chock full of wisdom as usual, I have to correct you slightly just so that my thoughts are understood and not misconstrued. Regardless of who has certs and doesn't and who should be teaching what, to me there is a larger issue than us as individuals, because each instructor and instructor trainer has a multiplier effect on how people enter the sport. There is A LOT OF RESPONSIBILIY attached to that. I mean, yall saw Spide Man, didn't ya?                                                                                                                                                          

Its not about me getting certs myself so much as the fact that if I want to keep boating, I'm stuck w/ the boaters that come up through the ranks, for better or for worse. So I hope it's gonna largely be better than worse. Does that make sense?

It may come across as though my responses are ego driven. That's one of the things that's frustrating for me because that's not the case. Its more of my own perspective of watching good practices and techniques and approaches to this sport be left by the wayside as they get replaced by carbon copy after carbon copy. Its hard to explain to someone who hasn't been in the sport for 20+ years. I'd just like to know that if people are pursuaded to spend money on instruction that they are getting something real and not just a $500 rubber stamp machine, that's all.

So again, T-pot, I made you the friendly fire, maybe it wasn't fully deserved but you brought it. I'm still just keeping it real here. Thats not to say you shouldn't pursue your passion at all, and get those credentials and apply them. But if this instruction thing takes off, if you end up influencing new comers to the sport, you're gonna be a roll model. So what you have to pass on matters. Thats why the shallow style sh*t and posturing is corrosive. I just want you to know you are (I am, we all are) standing on the Shoulders of Giants.

Thats why there is a sincere need for integrity whenever we are leading beginners, teaching courses, or whatever, to try to replicate these skills, techniques, ethics as faithfully as we can.

And That's why if I was to pursue some certs, hell yeah, I would want to try to learn from the best, such as those Totten mentioned. Who wouldn't? Kent Ford has been boating since the 70's and the Dereimers get rave reviews from practicly everyone I meet who has taken courses from them. The Dojo thing, there is a lot to that as well. The real Dojo can be tapped into on everyday paddling trips, as well, which has always been largely how most people progress and grow as boaters. And having a standardized framework like what the ACA provides is invaluable for that. Dojo, Kung Fu, these sorts of metaphors have a place in this sport for sure. I would just hope that anyone taking on the mantle of instructor would sincerely tap into it all on a genuine level and then be able to pass it on, that's all. Paddling in the Deep End of the river.

So this thread is too serious? I don't think so. I think its a serious topic. Its not a shallow topic, and kayak instruction and contemporary boating culture should not Dwell in the Shallow End of The River. I doubt Yoda would be down w/ the Brown Claw. To be fair, he also wouldn't like half of my responses in these threads



Oh well, none of us are perfect. We all gotta keep it real though, because from time to time the river's gonna do it for us no matter what.
🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
pottert
Super Looper
Super Looper
Avatar

Joined: 30 Apr 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 172
  Quote pottert Replybullet Posted: 17 Dec 2013 at 10:39pm
JP, I feel it man. I completely agree that being part of introducing new people to this sport is a huge responsibility. Considering the relatively few people who kayak in the first place, we need to make sure that those who are even remotely interested are getting the best instruction they can get. Like you said, I think we all want to paddle with good paddlers.

No worries about the brown claw or what ever else, thats just the homies messin around. I mean what other non-traditional sport has its very own throwable hand celebration? Gotta abuse that a little right?

I appreciate everyone's input on this topic. What started as a simple gauge of interest for an ACA class has become a beckoning from the local ballers of the sport stating their opinion on the topic of teaching people to paddle. I am honestly very inspired by each and every one of you, whether I have paddled with you or not, to host some bad ass paddling classes in the future.

Chances are, I am eventually going to come to you all for advice of some type at some point. Never stop learning.

I'll see you on riv!

T-Pot
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
STLboater
PP Junkie
PP Junkie
Avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 886
  Quote STLboater Replybullet Posted: 18 Dec 2013 at 4:40am
Hey Tom,
I figured would chime in again on the discussion of teaching an ACA certification course. We hold our kayak instructors to a high standard, but we hold our instructor trainers to a significantly higher standard.

In my opinion, an IT should have at least 5-8 years leading courses under the ACA, or at another accredited institution. Only after significant experience can you build a track record that will be recognized by the expert instructors out there. Seniority helps too. Over time, you develop experience beyond the ACA course where you find the real grains of wisdom that make an ACA instructor class special. These grains are your techniques, your style, recognizing and adapting to your students abilities, both mentally and physically. This wisdom takes time to develop, and it isn't found in ACA course outlines, instructional videos or through class V kayaking. However, this wisdom can be gifted to you through the mastery of a veteran instructor. This is why an experienced IT is so valuable.

There are many useful applications for you to have your IT, i'm sure you've thought of them, and I know you are fired up about it. Keep teaching, your skills will vastly improve through your instruction and introspecion. I know every move I break down for students helps me become a more technical paddler. My opinion is that more people should teach, it is one of the best ways to improve technique.

SYOTR,
Gordon
Kayak Academy Whitewater Instructor
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
huckin harms
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar

Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1477
  Quote huckin harms Replybullet Posted: 18 Dec 2013 at 8:59am
So, in the interest of this threads direction I removed the earlier kneejerk comment I made.

Edited by huckin harms - 18 Dec 2013 at 6:00pm
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
chipmaney
Big Boofer
Big Boofer
Avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 591
  Quote chipmaney Replybullet Posted: 18 Dec 2013 at 11:50am
JP's heart is in the right place. Like me, he just isn't an effective communicator.

Edited by chipmaney - 18 Dec 2013 at 12:48pm
sitting all alone on a mountain by a river that has no end
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
jP
Rio Banditos
Rio Banditos
Avatar
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !

Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4404
  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 18 Dec 2013 at 8:19pm
Bummer Mike, I never even got to read it. Oh well.

Originally posted by chipmaney

JP's heart is in the right place. Like me, he just isn't an effective communicator.




Online, maybe. That's a broad statement though. Pretty loaded with Irony all around, actually. And I'm laughing my ass off this very second as I decide not to ellaborate further. Pretty confident you're wrong, though. You see, its all about context, chipper. But you have never tried to tap into the correct context, so you can believe what you want. I don't mind.
🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
chipmaney
Big Boofer
Big Boofer
Avatar

Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 591
  Quote chipmaney Replybullet Posted: 18 Dec 2013 at 10:42pm
don't see much irony in knowing myself. just adding my voice to the usual chorus.

Edited by chipmaney - 18 Dec 2013 at 10:47pm
sitting all alone on a mountain by a river that has no end
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
<< Prev Page  of 2
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum