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Poll Question: what should i call the WA extreme kayak race series im organizing?
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1150lbsofaire
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  Quote 1150lbsofaire Replybullet Topic: name that race series
    Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 3:18pm
So after talking to some of the regions core boaters and the organizers of the already established class 4+ 5 races in Washington i have decided to organize a Free point series for kayaks.

The Goal- The goal with this race series is to get more paddlers to make the whole class 5 circuit, to reward the few that all ready do, to highlight all the amazing talent we have here in the northwest and most important meet new people.


The Races-
Truss Fest, March 2nd, top of big brother to the bottom of double drop

Canyon Creek Race, it may be earlier this year and may be apart from the northwest creek comps east fork Lewis race but i have been told by Luke Spencer that he will put a canyon creek comp on for us know mater how the transition   goes this year with the race

Robe Races, usually end of April, will have more info when the snow pack unfolds. Thanks Todd

Professor Paddles Icicle race, date ?, Thanks James and the rest of the Professor Paddle crew

World Class Kayak Academy's Little white Salmon Race, usually the first weekend in June, Thanks Capo


The Divisions- overall kayak, Legends Division 40+ and Women


The Prizes- A hand crafted Blunt Family paddles donated by Kenny Kiley for the top paddler and hand blown custom glass trophy's blown by Logan Ferrell of White Salmon Glass Works for the top Legend and lady(like them on fb). ideally i would like to come up with more prizes for the top contenders and have shirts or something made up for anyone who makes it to 4 out of 5 of the events if anyone or grass routes company wants to donate anything.


The Rules-your best 4 out of 5 finishing spots totaled, lowest score wins. anyone who makes it to all five events will have 2 points taken from there final score.


End of season celebration and tumwater exhibition races to be held mid August, this will also act as a tie breaker in case of any ties   

Next Step-as soon as i finalize a name im gonna need someone skilled in the arts to help me with a logo and race posters

Contact-Hans 509-480-0481 or hansh57@gmail

*Everything is subject to change up till the start of the session March 2nd
lookin for a bow cap for a storm
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1150lbsofaire
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  Quote 1150lbsofaire Replybullet Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 3:24pm
All individual race fees still apply and the format of each race is till entirely up to each races organizers
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 7:24pm
Yeah, that's right: I said both those names SUCK!
Didja see my vote?!

Haha then again, Primus sucks too, and they're one of my favorite bands. Seriously, no strong opinion I'm just jokin around.

If I did have an opinion tho ('cause let's not kid ourselves yall know I do), it would be shaped something like this:

I feel like all these races would start to structure my time way too much. And the more races you add, the less likely you'll consistently pull a strong enough draw to all of them, spreading the overall circuit too thin.

I think that if a series of races proliferates, then it would be more interesting to have each race be its own thing with its own identity.

One of the reasons I like the Robe Race is that it isn't the same old same old kind of format. That race has its own unique identity. If you really want a series of races, how many races do you really need if they are all structured the same way?

Like, how about more marathon races? How about a three rivers race?
Such as this idea: Start at the bridge on Ingalls creek and race to Cashmere. Three rivers, bitches! Yup, you're right: hardly anyone is gonna sign up for that one.

Or how 'bout a race where you have to start in a parking lot not far from the put in. Each racer must load his boat on a rig, drive up there, put on, race, take out, change, load up ect, and race to a bar without getting pulled over for speeding. Now that would be cool.

Or, every racer has his or her boat staged at Fourth of July creek. But the racers start at the Icicle Ridge trailhead. Run up onto Icicle Ridge, all the way up to Fourth of July Creek, descend the trail, hop in their already staged boat, and race down to, say, the Top of Ricochete (I'm envisioning this when the water is high enough that few are gonna want to run Ricochete.)

Anyway, just some suggestions of possible ideas.

I think racing is great, and more paddlers should at least check it out. Its humbling for sure, and really shows you where you are at with yourself. Me personally, I just want toboat the goods these days, so I'll shut up now. I do think its exciting to see the PNW blossom and embrace the race. So whatever you feel like doing just do it. I'll eventually show up around at least some of these events and volunteer ir something.
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 7:27pm
Oh yeah, I like Bvogt's idea on the Green at 6k.
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  Quote WA-Boater Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 10:56am
The Green @ 6k race would be epic. Whether it's part of a point series or not. Ben Hawthorne has organized a winter race series - for the pure enjoyment of racing - and maybe he'll do it as part of that. Either way, if it shots to 6k, I will talk to Ben or try and organize something informally here.
The Green at 6K is 6 miles of the best whitewater you will find anywhere on the planet. And it's in a beautiful setting not too far away.
 
Hans - I am excited about the race series. It sounds pretty sweet - great idea. I will try and make it to all 5. You should start it as soon as you can so Louis' shoulder can't heal up all the way :) ! Name it what you want - I will be there!
 
Slickhorn - Ben H's race series is gonna have a lot of variety - be it distance, difficulty or maybe even an attainment at snoqualmie falls if there is no water elesewhere. Keep your eye out - he is planning races on the 3rd Saturday of the month. Location is depentant on water levels and who wants to participate on a given day.

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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 11:53am
Yeah, I gotta say I applaud Ben's effort to spearhead this "3rd Saturday" agenda, and I encourage the average paddler to show up to some. I plan to participate in a few, eventually.

Yup Hans, it doesn't much matter what you call it. Just that its happening is what matters.

I think the Sky would be a great venue for a relay race, given its distinct sections. Pretty sure this has been done, but I never attended one, and I would. I think an Ingalls/Peshastin/Wenatchee from Dam to Cashmere would also make a great relay race.

The relay format would allow more varied skill levels to participate, and I'm surprised it isn't more common.

In fact, now that the White Salmon is open from Mighty Pahto all the way to the once mighty Columbia River, the White Salmon would also make a great venue for a relay race. You heard it here first, folks!
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 12:16pm
I like the idea of structuring a relay race that stipulates a variety of craft. Obviously you'd need to stipulate that the same class of craft is used by all competitors across the board, so having a creekboat hand off the batton to an Ik who hands it off to a raft, ect. I mean, we all know a raft can't hope to race against a greenboat.

You could even race to Rodeo (with the Ingalls to Cashmere Idea), and work a rodeo element into things. Imagine if each team had:
1 creekboat (for Ingalls to Peshastin or even to Peshastin crk t.o.)
1 longboat (for the lengthy yet very manageable Peshastin leg)
1 IK
1 raft
1 playboat (for freestyle comp at the end: either at Rodeo or at Granny's or somethin)

And hell, that Peshastin leg below the conventional take out is long and boring. There's room to add a tandem canoe in there, also!

It would represent pretty much every widely used class of river craft. Yeah, I know, a few riverboarders might chime in "what about us?"
Well, if there are enough river boarders to allocate to the numbers of teams signed up, they could easily be included, too.

Honestly, I think rather than over-planning tons of events at the PP Ball, one really well organized event designed to bring everyone together could be cool.

Just brainstorming

Edited by jP - 07 Nov 2012 at 12:20pm
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 12:17pm
Sorry Hans, not tryin to jack yer thread
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 1:27pm
The Green at 6k race would not be a good idea. Multiple people have died in there at those levels...More like the Green at 2500-3000 would enable more people to participate.
I personally would not want to run the Upper Green at levels above 3k and many other feel the same way that I do.
The Lower Green at 6k would be good to go though.
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 3:49pm
Well, Dave- we certainly have had our disagreements in the past, particularly regarding the Green Gorge as far as boatable flows are concerned.

While you do raise a sensible point (absolutely: attendence at a race held in there at 6,000 cfs would be composed of a very small and elite group), the matter is entirely subjective. It depends on the paddlers involved. Darren says he'd race at 6,000 while you state you won't even run it much above 3,000.

That is the beauty of this sport. We can all find our place on the river.

I would like to point out that here we are in the 21st century. A time when the elite paddlers on the planet have run Palouse Falls, Sunset Falls, the Congo, and we are seeing runs on the Stikine appear "routine", just to name some examples. And, yup, like you Dave, I will never attempt any of those challenges (Well, my mind likes to entertain the notion of running the Stikine, though most likely, almost certainly, I never will). These feats and many others clearly show us what is humanly possible for those with the courage, skill, and will to triumph over the challenges involved.

I say all this because (at least for me) the examples these excellent paddlers provide for us can serve as a reference point for all of us to objectively re-evaluate what is possible for us "mortal boaters" to achieve.

Yes, lives have been claimed by the Green River. But HWY 2 has also claimed lives and it doesn't stop us from driving to Leavenworth and back, now does it? The Gauley claims WAY MORE lives than the Green can ever hope to (as if a river would "hope to"). So, these are subjectivities and I'm saying this because I have time to at the moment and want to keep things in perspective.

Just because people define what they will and won't paddle based on their limitations, does not mean the rest of the participants in this sport should be bound by those peoples' limitations. That's simply not at all what this sport is about.

Me? I get all too frustrated by my own SELF IMPOSED limitations. And it can be very discouraging to watch others come along and surpass where you are at because you've firmly set those limitations in stone. So my advice to every paddler would be: Don't. We all have room to progress if we want. And if we are content where we are, well that's the beauty of our sport. You can have a lifetime of fun just running the Wenatchee. For myself, when I observe someone like Tom and Kira come along and shatter my notions of what I thought wasn't possible (in their case, rafting) I choose to take it as an opportunity to grow. To learn something new. To re-evaluate what is possible and where the limits really are, as opposed to where I think they are, or where I thought they were in 2004, or 1996, or 1986, ect. That process, it turns out, is a big reason why I continue to paddle. Its a way of feeling your way through. A process for feeling the "shapes" of reality, and re defining it. Shaping reality ourselves.

Whitewater racing has ALWAYS played a HUGE role in this continual process. I just wish that more of the "average joe" boaters would recognize this. Especially those who scoff at the notion of racing and the notions of pushing that edge (Dave, I am DEFINITELY NOT accusing you of this).

Racing down whitewater has always been the bedrock of the sport and its continued evolution. Ever since Roger Paris showed up at Fib Ark. So here's where I'm gonna leave it: Here's where the saying "if you don't know where you come from, you can't know where you're going" comes in. Because this sport has a long rich heritage. Believe it or not, whitewater kayaking existed long before Tao showed up. But this is where we are now. Talking about racing on the Green at 6,000 may not make it happen, but the notion is far from unreasonable in 2012.
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 3:50pm
~sigh~

That felt good.
Sorry, Hans.
Your thread has officially been hijacked.




Haha- I sure hope you don't get an email everytime someone responds to your thread, cuz you'll probably end up loggin in to find a bunch of jP essays

"Aw man! Its all fu*kin jP posts!"



Edited by jP - 07 Nov 2012 at 3:53pm
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  Quote septimus prime Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 4:32pm
6000 cfs on the green is a hoot, although safety boaters would probably not need boats, but nets near flaming geyser.

Edited by septimus prime - 07 Nov 2012 at 4:42pm
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  Quote 1150lbsofaire Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 6:39pm
Slickhorn- a green race is a great idea, not sure about those flows though.organizing a event is a very rewarding way to give back to the sport that has given so much to us

JP- i always love hearing your voice even if it is digital

Darren-glad your stoked, Louise might not be the only blade down here that might give you a run for your money   
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  Quote WA-Boater Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 7:19pm

You are right on Hans - I know Hood River is full of talented paddlers and people alike. I look forward to the series and hope Louis is not only all healed up, but has been able to get some time back in the boat. And don't forget about Andrew McEwan from up here.


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  Quote Mr.Grinch Replybullet Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 7:10pm
I like the endurance race ideas, the relay style. How about another element? In endurance car racing (24 hour insanity), there are driver changes of the same car. How about adding tricky or at least unique eddies or other places to switch paddlers, but the boat remains the same?

And in favor of te relay aspect: the playboat spot(s) are like a stalled baton pass, where as a team reaches a certain place, the point scoring time window for the playboater opens. When it closes, downriver begins.

Another thought I had a while back, as I have only a cheesy freerunning boat, is that of racing with the caveat that some sort of play must be done in each applicable rapid before continuing to the next? This is below the class 4+/5 rating, but not all waves on the WSP Tour are heaving, overhead, reef draining, death defying barrels. Some events are challenging in the ability to be spontaneous in smallish surf. The massive problem with this idea is judges placed at every rapid warranted a stop and play a bit spot. That and timing coordination because timing would have to be broken up like rally stages (more auto racing influence). What this does is showcase flexibility in a range of environments, not just one aspect of the sport. Well rounded individuals/teams are rewarded, but this subject, like a few others expressed, may be better in another forum than this, but it prompted me to expell my thoughts.

Maybe I'm just being silly.



Edited by Mr.Grinch - 09 Nov 2012 at 7:22pm
nnln.
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