I am going to be staying at the beach at Westport, WA this weekend through early next week. I want to bring my playboat to try a little surfing. I have not play boated in the surf at Westport before so I wanted to get some local knowledge from others who have surfed around out there at the Jetty, Groins etc. What wave height and period should I look for for max fun while not getting slammed. Best time of day typically? How is the climate with the surfers etc.? Any bits of beta you folks might share would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Thanks Mark for the information!

Thanks Scott. Very helpful. With spouse and 5 yr. old in tow may be the way to go.

Don

Sounds good. I'll be staying at a place just south of the jetty. White and blue Pyranha, Red helmet.....not standing on a board.

cheers

Don

Regarding the advice to stear clear of board surfers...I disagree.

Actually, make it a point to paddle exactly where board surfers are because that's usually where the best waves are. Also, make sure they know that you're staying right there and not going any where else.

If a board surfer starts running their mouth...just ignore them because they're usually doing it to impress their board surfer friends. If they try to start a fight then--if you're up for it--very calmly remind them that as a kayaker you naturally carry a weapon (paddle).

You might get hastled, but only temporarily. The bottom line is to make sure you can control your boat and are not a hazard to anyone AND don't snake waves--remember to give up a few and / or take your turn. Once you're a regular visitor to a particular break folks will leave you alone.

Of course, all of this really only applies to areas with a point break. Open beach breaks are generally more spread out such that you can find an area all to yourself.


Edited by autonomicpilot - 15 Aug 2012 at 4:04pm

It definitely takes a certain etiquette to be respected as a boater out in the lineup but its plenty doable. If you go for the waves that the surfers aren't catching that helps, and try and find your own space as much as possible.

Surfers often have to be very, very patient when it comes to getting a good wave count. So when they've paid their dues, waited for the right conditions, etc. only to be beaten by a guy in a plastic boat, grumpiness ensues..

I rembember a day at the crescent bay in westport and I was on my board while Hawthorne was charging in his kayak, he didn't seem to have any issues.

Be respectful, courteous, and chill,  and you should be golden.

Unless you are legitimately a board surfer and can competently ride waves and negotiate the surf zone, please do not comment. I thank the comment regarding the patience and time paid that it takes to become a decent surfer, as it is much harder than most people think.

I started boating when I was 8 or 9 years old, in wood and canvas canoes none the less. Royalex was utilized for whitewater trips, and a few Kevlar boats floated me at times too.

Life took me out of boats and a few years later onto boards in the surf zone. Unlike playboating at, say, Turkey Shoot, ocean waves are a limited resource made even more rare in quality when local winds and tides are factored in. Westport is a beach break and it has been mentioned in this thread that point breaks harbor even more tension and that is an entirely different discussion.

Simple point is this: as boaters, we surf waves in a different manner (generally. True surf kayakers with optimzed gear excepted). Paddle power and at what stage of a wave breaking that it can be caught by what craft is another. It is harder, even on a longboard, to catch a wave because your hands just don't have the paddle power of a kayak blade.

Safety is another concern and unless you are prepared to deal with the surf zone you could be setting yourself and others up for trouble, no different than putting on a river a bit too above your level.

I surfed for a long time without a leash because it taught me a lot about being deliberate. I still try not to use it as a crutch but only as an "in case" I need it device. The time before the last time I paddled out my leash broke while on the initial voyage for the day and that only made me a little more reserved. I still took off late and deep, but mainly pulled out early and certainly fought harder to get back into the outside.

What does that have to do with surf kayaking?

Knowledge. To be honest, I do not want to kayak in a surf zone as I have too much fun on my feet. That and without a real surf kayak (basically a marriage between a surfboard as the hull and a deck for the paddler above that), any WW playboat that doesn't accept fins would be too slow once trying to go "down the line," and too unresponsive without fins. Does not mean it can't be fun, just not my persuit, that's all.

Remember, ocean waves are a limited resource, unlike standing river waves. Yes, a river wave can be gone tomorrow, even later that day if the river is that flashy. But tides, winds, swell direction, period, height, and their relation to break bathemetry are generally not issues playboaters have to worry about. Just levels, generally. It's a few hour window of opportunity for the possibility to have a decent breaking wave (beach break. Points are more consistent but may be more finicky with tides and period). Surfers have to put in a ton of time to get good, and even a good surfer does not have the speed a kayak has and thus not the ability to catch waves a kayak has.

There is also a huge difference between stationary planing and kinetic planing. In the former (think Turkey, Snowblind) you aren't really moving but the speed of the water below you interacts with your planing hull. In surfing, the water itself doesn't really move until the lip has pitched, your planing comes from being in actual motion, the curl of the unbroken wave face providing an offering to exploit gravity. Being inside the barrel is beyond my abilty to explain, but the feeling is timelessness.

Consider yourself in all I've just thrown out there, consider yourself a surfer and you've put in your time, and you're in the right spot and you have a craft that can actually ride the wave down the line (along the breaking direction of the curling, unbroken face of the wave with your direction of travel nearly parallel to the shore) and a novice boater or boarder isn't paying attention and drops in and just heads towards shore (perpendicular to to shore and the ridable wave face) terminally interrupting your ride. Beach breaks are notorious for disappearing channels and other f¥ck ¥ou moments when you are trying to get back outside the break. It's an equation of effort and payoff. As well, someone mentioned making sure they go where surfers are because that is usually where better waves are us untrue when it comes to beach breaks. That is part of their beauty. As well, be wary of wave periods over 15/16 seconds as the wave tends to be too fast, deep, and too wide to exploit sand bars. Especially if the height is over six feet. This can translate to eight foot high hollow close out sets that will send many board and boat back to shore thinking nothing more of where to get a bite to eat. Point breaks can handle this activity (every spot is different, but generally....), some beaches too, but not only do you need exquisite sandbars, but a hell of a lot o talent as such a swell will generally tube up a but and a pitching lip doles out punishment with little regard for anything.

Quick note, for starters, an on shore wind (from ocean to land), 2-3' swell at about 10 seconds is great to start. Tides are dependent on what the sandbars are up to, but know that waves arrive in sets. When it seems to have settled into a lull, quickly paddle towards shore, roll over, and extend your paddle deep to check depth. Roll up, quickly paddle back out. This will help you gauge comfort with the situation. Now's the time, too, as the Alutians aren't cranking yet.

Ok, back to my drivel: in river etiquette this is akin to sitting in an upstream eddy while someone surfs a feature down stream, then just peeling out and headif right toward them (oh, and they do not have eddy service to the feature, think Granny's) with no intention of surfing.

If you have a true surf kayak I hope your approach is akin to that of a board surfer. This statement pertains to lurkers in this thread. I, as a surfer, always give up waves to other surfers unless experience dictates they aren't in the right spot for the wave anyway. As said, the room for errorwhen catching a wave on a board is much smaller than in a boat due to speed and float.

Oh, and the last time I got worked (over the falls, oh yeah) in the surf I remember thinking how much it would suck to be in a boat compared to not. Just something to thing about. That was in just overhead surf that was lightly barreling at the peak. The very lack of buoyancy a board has compared to a boat equals lack of retention and therefore getting driven deeper, but not being held onto by the wave energy as well.

It really isn't simple. It really isn't all about bad attitudes. It really is addictive and beautiful. It really is its own thing, the whole way around.

Like anything else, it boils down to how much time you spend doing it before you realize what works and what does not work. Logging lots of days with a boat and a board also helps.

As for type of boat, I couldn't imagine anything better than my old Riot boat on a long-board wave on a head-high day. Days like that delivery nothing but long rides and fat blunts. Had such a day last weekend in Oregon...until my backband broke (lol), which is a problem you don't have with a board.




Edited by autonomicpilot - 18 Aug 2012 at 4:59pm

There are 2 keys to becoming a surfer (for someone who didn't grow up surfing or start at a younger age):

1-Patience

2-You have to move to the beach

Spend 4-6 months surfing every day, and you'll have learned enough to get on the right track. From there it takes a solid 4-10 years to get legitimately good depending on how often you surf, how quality the waves are where you chose to become a surfer, and certainly depends in part on how athletic you are, and how small you are. The smaller/lighter the better.

The biggest problem I see that most people have when they come to surfing from another sport, is adjusting to the slow learning curve. Snowboarders/Skiiers/Boaters/Climbers are used to sports where you can try until you fall down, and then get back up and keep going. If you're really driven maybe you put in a solid 6 hour effort for the day. I became a pretty solid snowboarder after just 4 months doing a full season and riding every day.

Surfing is different. Way slower. Probably 10 times as difficult to learn and improve. You can't practice until you are patient enough to be in the water at the right conditions for your level. Its rare to log more than 2-3 hours a day in the water and during that time as a beginner you spend 90% of the time sitting, not knowing what to do, missing waves that a better surfer would have caught, etc. Its a a slow learning curve, but if you know what you're up against from the beginning it helps to relax and realize that you have a long way to go, and you're just going to paddle out again one more time tomorrow because its fun.

If you have fun and want to go back for more, and you do that consistently, the rest falls into place.

If you're not willing to live at the beach and wait for the conditions to be right, you have to get comfortable with the fact that you'll most likely never be a strong surfer.

Surfing is a sport where it really, really pays to take a few lessons. If you don't have an accomplished surfer to take you under their wing, it can really go a long way to take some lessons and get on the right track from the beginning.

The Wedge in SoCal prohibits surfboards during certain times of the day in certain seasons due to their inherent danger compared to soft boogie boards. Kayaks being banned from breaks are due to uninformed and irresponsible people creating tha situation. There are also beaches where, depending on where you are in the water, when you look ashore the parallax setup of certain signs will read "no" meaning no to certain groups (I've seen it years ago in passing but forget the details, other than to distinguish different areas of the break for different riders.) I've seen all surfers:boards, boats, and bodies banned from other parts of beaches so bathing people don't have as much to worry about.

I edited and re-edited my post and still messed some things up. Please forgive me, a phone is all I have for internets.

I meant to say that if you aren't or at least haven't been a competent board surfer and lived that lifestyle, please don't make generalized comments.

I was homeless in 2001 and though I had a job, I slept on the beach. I started surfing. When I saved enough money, I got a shack near the beach. This continued for years. It is true that surfing is one of those lifestyles that is easy to become enamored with, hard to let go of, yet even harder to progress in. I currently only have a longboard. I used to have a bunch of boards for different moods and wave conditions. Now, this is my do-all, be-all for how much time I get in the ocean. Last time I surfed, after almost two hours and coming to shore for some water, a few friends on the beach were around and one remarked how he wished he had his longboard instead of the smaller board he had. I was feeling amped and switched boards for the next session. I don't know how his session went, but I was overjoyed and apt to take advantage of my body remembering how to surf a short(ish) board. No regrets whatsoever and a few handshakes from unknown people after my last ride. I'd say it's like riding a bike, but the road doesn't move while you're riding it, and you don't have to catch it to begin with. I credit the time and dedication I put in in Cali.

Once again, what does my drivel have to do with any of this? Once again it boils down to experience.

It is untrue that te best place to sit is where the most surfers are. Especially if you are greedy, unreliable, dangerous, and do not make the most of the waves you do catch. Surfers judge each other his way, and judge kayakers in the lineup harder because many we see there do not seem to either know nor abide the etiquette.

How do you become better in such a confusing and potentially hostile yet magical and rewarding place? Baby steps. Don't go for the peak if you can't surf the foam, at least. Don't go for the peeling breakers if you can't trim.

Dedication is huge in surfing because you are responsible for yourself. Nobody is gonna throw you a rope, and if you are unprepared to be pinned to the sea floor, keep your cool, and work with the ocean dynamic, then don't get into situations that can potentially lead to such situations. Just like whitewater. If you are unprepared to be pinned, strained, or seived, and your crew isn't ready for the possibility, don't go where those possibilities are.

I'm not prepared for some kayaking situations inherent in cl IV, so you won't find me there. If I get there, it'll only be because I'm sure I should be there and that I'm sure the potential for disaster is as much offset as possible by the experience of all of us on the water.

Surfin can be quite dangerous, though not as inherently dangerous as whitewater. Still, the limited resource aspect is what drives aggression in the lineup.

I have yet to see a surf kayak at Pipeline when it's on. Te'ahupoo, don't even joke. Maybe one day, but boaters are a ways away in craft development and skill to tackle the heavies. Shipstern's Bluff? No way. Though boofing the six foot barrel forming on the face of a twenty foot hollow monster that is basically the ocean folding over on itself sounds fun. Not.

Just like Parrot Ice (pair-a-dice, Paradise, etc) might be a good feature, might not be the best to begin on. Rodeo as well. Accessible, but when it's on, might not be for beginners. Of course, they're generally safe enough downstream, but for someone looking to learn, it might not be the wisest choice. I'm not a good playboater, though I am competent enough to hit those spots. I've enjoyed the Green solo, some of my best cartwheels on a feature!

I've surfed some sketchy spots solo, too. One sketchy aspect is one whitewater will never have: sharks. But ocean surfing doesn't have sieves, strainers, undercuts, or holes. Anyway, until I hear about a trout attack, and since I've seen someone get bitten by a shark, surfing north of Monterrey has the wildlife while in action factor. It really is unnerving to be pinned underwater by a wave. While sitting in the lineup, I may be ten or more feet deep. As swells roll in, ya might get caught by a lip and driven down. Just like having to swim out of a hole, it is all about being prepared and aware.

Back to progression and beginning with surfing. It will most likely, this time of year, be easy to get outside the break. If it happens to be a day with many surfers, and good conditions, the hardest thing to realize will once again be the manner in which boaters are accustomed to surfing vs how boarders approach it. This is not at all to say that boaters cannot realize nor try to follow a breaking wave along the curl, merely saying again that surfing a stationary wave is different than trimming. A good surfer can make short work of quite a bit of distance if the wave has even a minimal amount of peel to it. If the wave is hollow enough, being inside the tube can provide an insane amount of speed. Doesn't take much, too. I've gained serious speed on my longboard in tubes I've crouched to fit in. Single fin, of course. This harkens back to my remark about boats with fins. I got a DR Thrusters years ago because it accepted fins. I thought it'd be a good dual purpose dedicated playboat and surf kayak hybrid. I'm sure it is, but that seat was never comfortable so i sold it. Still, that boat was an excellent hybrid in my limited experience. I should have don't what Brett suggested and just gone full foam for outfitting instead of using stock plastic. Whatever, I love the feeling of surfing while standing when it comes to the dynamics of ocean waves. Boats do much better when dealing with stationary waves, IMHO.

To progress in surfing is to stay out of the people who are better than you, for your sake and theirs. Start by riding the foam, traveling perpendicular to shore. Slowly progress to catching unbroken waves and then learning how to do a bottom curve. From there learn how to trim along a peeling face (this is where bad vibes begin, as riding the breaking direction of a wave is the goal, thus the goal of better surfers you'll have to compete against. Never drop in, though). Familiarize yourself with the commonly accepted etiquette, and allow to know that every place may have a tweak or two of the rules, locals favored of course due to the limited resource. When it comes to beaches, never underestimate the will of people to pack together. My best trick in surfing is to spot the unridden break and exploit it while others are packed together in a crowd. I cannot stress this creativity more when it comes to beach breaks. It doesn't apply well to points/reefs, but Westport is a beach, even with the jetty. My experience allows me to maximize my out of the pack lineup, but it pays for itself in less hassle between me and others in the water.

I remember remarking many months ago when a few things clicked with me and running cl-III/IV as a playground that the group dynamic, overall, on the river is more fun than in the ocean lineup. I still love that. However, given the choice, I'd rather be in the tube. Surfing is, to me, that powerful a drug.

I'll bring my toy out sometime for you who are interested. Google carveboard for more info. Inflatable tires on a skateboard, oh my.

I still dream about surfing. My nightmares are when I can see the waves and can't get to them.

I still enjoy the social aspect of kayaking a whole lot, though. The paddling part ain't that bad either.

Nothing like the tube, though.

Well put Dave, answered the OP's question.....and in one sentence no less!

http://www.canoekayak.com/whitewater-kayak/end-game-tao-berman/