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irenen
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  Quote irenen Replybullet Posted: 05 Feb 2012 at 4:03pm
I think the Angelina Jolie comment seemed to have something to do with his disgust at the way things were handled by the guys in charge of the people who took them hostage.  It seems to me from what I've read on this thread and just in general that there's a strong trend towards taking what I think is the easy route, which is idealizing one group and being extremely hard on the other (especially when "the other" is one's own group, since then the assumption is that we're being fair).  In reality the issue (whichever one it is) is usually much more complicated, and yes the ongoing theme throughout history is hapless natives - 'natives' is a factual term, not a patronizing one, in my opinion - crushed under the goals of corporate profits and seeing their cultures going down the tube, along with their ancestral lands - it's heinous.  But at this point in time, after all the effect of western "civilized" culture, TV, and loss of livelihood and everything that goes with it, I would be no more surprised if I got taken out by a machete in a place like that because someone wanted my Ipod than if someone wanted to make a stand for conservation.  That's not pretty to say, but it is realistic, and at least I'm OK saying I would not be too quick to assume I know which one it would be.  They could have used the media attention created by this event to make a public appeal on the conservation side, but instead it turned into a big political shmooze-fest.  Maybe they were afraid of retaliation down the road, or maybe it was for some other reason.  The most important thing I can say is I don't know, which I wish more people on this end would do.  Idealizing people based on their background or heritage is just as patronizing as condemning them for it, in my opinion.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a paddle.
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James
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 06 Feb 2012 at 9:01am
On a totally separate note, and I know this is a blanket statement, but anyone who ventures around in the Darién Gap is more than likely a willing participant in hostage / captivity situations. You read the accounts of the people that go down there and it is clear that they ignore or recognize a ca-jillion warnings about how they should not be there. The road ends, the public tell them not to go, past stories of failure, capture, death and disappearance, Map Stores warn people, all over the globe people claim it as the most dangerous place on earth, the government trys to sway you from going there, and of course whole industries, Shipping, Air Cargo and more have been set up just to assist everyone traveling "Around" the Gap never through it.

Now I am not saying when you choose to go venturing into those areas every other action in your life should be measured by the same decisions, but it is a bit of an indicator. 
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up4air
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  Quote up4air Replybullet Posted: 06 Feb 2012 at 12:33pm
I don't know the situation or reason - I questioned it myself - I know he was on a road so perhaps he was near it or took the road as far as it went? I've heard there are no actual roads in the Gap. Hard to conjecture, but yes it is a separate topic. He knows about this thread so perhaps he'll pipe in.

am I going to get another error warning message after hitting "post reply" saying I've out posted my welcome here again? ;)
More water, please.
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James
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 06 Feb 2012 at 12:37pm
Did you get the warning? .... Shellie?

Yea there are roads on both sides of the Gap but nothing all the way through. Cool history though... All this coming from someone that has never even set food in Panama or Columbia of course


Edited by James - 06 Feb 2012 at 12:37pm
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up4air
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  Quote up4air Replybullet Posted: 06 Feb 2012 at 5:47pm
no warning this time.
More water, please.
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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 06 Feb 2012 at 5:59pm
Originally posted by up4air


am I going to get another error warning message after hitting "post reply" saying I've out posted my welcome here again? ;)


I've been anticipating such a warning message for years- pretty much every third post or more

Oh well. I'm almost done talking sh*t on this thread, so no such error messages should be necessary, I hope. I do find the whole
Aguas Blancas/ Neuvo Conquistador dynamic interesting. And the more "innocent" episodes us Gringos get into in our pursuit of adventure. Sure, we are not Copporate Entities raping these places, we are individuals. But unfortunately it is really hard to seperate ourself from those copporate habits and tendencies, and the effects of our foriegn policy dating back before "United Fruit".

Irene, I see your point and largely agree. I liked your "IPOD" example. I don't mean to romanticize "the natives", I just like to try to put myself in their shoes. Try to see things from multiple angles.


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