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JayC
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  Quote JayC Replybullet Topic: Green River Cleanup
    Posted: 15 Jan 2012 at 12:57pm

I would like to introduce a new page on facebook, http://www.facebook.com/greenrivercleanup.  This site along with http://www.greenrivercleanup.org are the only two official web sites for the Green River Cleanup.

 

Here is a place for all things, Green River Cleanup (GRCU) related to gather.  In 2012, the GRCU is in its 27th year and has never had a central place to gather photos, tell stories and to disburse accurate information about the GRCU.  It is my hope that this page will remedy that.

 

This is your page.  Please use it to upload your GRCU pictures and stories, check for latest information, post any questions or comments you have about the GRCU.  Arrange GRCU shuttles and rides.  Get connected with other GRCU participants.

 

I am particularly interested in past GRCU photos and stories.  I know they are out there.  Where is the picture of the catboat hauling out that 300 gallon water tank a few years back?  How about that story of the couple that where high school sweethearts and met up again years later at the 10th annual GRCU then got married.  Was the GRCU your first experience with the Green River Gorge?  Please tell your story here.

 

Please visit and support this new facebook page by clicking the like button, even if you have not or cannot attend the event, show your support by liking the page.  Share the page with your friends, ask them to “like” it also.  I am excited about this new facebook page and am looking forward to seeing (like the GRCU itself) how it evolves.

 

Please take the time now to upload your favorite GRCU photo or tell your GRCU story.  Your support, past and future is greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

SYOTR

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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 16 Jan 2012 at 8:33am
Let this be our official GRCU Thread as well!!!!

I have a personal challenge to anyone that is going...

A bit above Shan gri La and a bit below Paradise on River Left is what looks to be some piece of Mining Equipment... I know it is not as cool as the Jet Ski that Joe pulled out or perhaps some of the other odd things but it is big, and would present a challenge indeed. So go scout it out while I think of a suitable reward.
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 16 Jan 2012 at 7:34pm
Dude, you can't be talkin bout 'ol COAL bbucket?
Right below Paradise- R.Left. in that series of rapids before you get to Kay's Landing (that's what the lower Paradise t.o. is called). Yeah that's where Nelson got tangled up.

Dude, you can't remove that. That's an Historical Landmark.
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 16 Jan 2012 at 7:36pm
Besides- it makes a good boof at about 750-900 cfs.
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 16 Jan 2012 at 7:42pm
I originally got into this thread to express an interest in the Green River Cleanup. And to express a dislike and, vote of No Confidence in, Facebook. So I guess Y'nz who got your faces in the book (One Book to Rule Them All, One Book To Find Them,One Book to bring them all and... Ect.) Gonna have to keep me in the loop.

Whatever- I like The Green River Cleanup. Won't be hittn up the FB tho.
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 16 Jan 2012 at 11:20pm
That coal bucket probably weighs over 1,000lbs. Good luck with that. There is a reason why the minors left that there, think about it.
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 16 Jan 2012 at 11:51pm
Interesting bit of history regarding that coal car.

By the late 1960s Palmer was operating one underground coal mine on the east bank of the Green River and had recently closed another.  The active mine was called the No. 10, named after one of the seventeen coal seams of the Franklin series. The No. 12 mine had closed several years earlier.  A wooden bridge with narrow gauge rails for small coal cars crossed the river and provided access to the west side where flatter ground made coal removal by dump-trucks easier. In March 1971, Rocket Research using special explosives blasted the old bridge down. The ceremony was attended by many State and local dignitaries as well as television crews from NBC for the monthly documentary program called "First Tuesday" shown in May of that year.

I would like to find that NBC show.
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 16 Jan 2012 at 11:53pm
http://www.palmercc.com/Photoalbum.htm
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 17 Jan 2012 at 8:43am
"Whatever- I like The Green River Cleanup. Won't be hittn up the FB tho. "

Ditto, without ranting, I will just agree.

Interesting about the Coal Car, and I also had no idea that the hot springs there is actually a non-natural spring caused by a 100 year coal fire that still burns today.... Cool history.


Check this out... Can anyone guess the first guy on the left in this photo?
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 17 Jan 2012 at 9:02am
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  Quote JayC Replybullet Posted: 29 Apr 2012 at 3:55pm

Celebrate Cinco de Mayo with us at the 27th Annual Green River Cleanup

Get Involved

Here’s how

Boaters:  Register with WRRR and FOG volunteers, 9:00 am till about noon.  You will find them with clipboards and bags at reach 1, 2 and 4’s put-in location.

Reach 1 “headworks” class III whitewater

Reach 2 “Upper Gorge” class IV experience required

Reach 3 “Lower Gorge” class III

Reach 4 “Yo-Yo” class II.

Navigate the river; pick up trash, transport it to Kanaskat-Palmer or Flaming geyser State parks.  Camp out free at Kanaskat-Palmer group camp sight.  Free to all Green River Cleanup volunteers Friday and Saturday nights. Celebrate, feel good about yourself for doing the right thing show your pictures and tell your stories.  Then post your pictures and share your stories at www.facebook.com/greenrivercleanup.

Ground crews and walk-ins; Register with Pat at Flaming Geyser State Park.  She will be at shelter 3 between 9:00 AM and 12:30 PM.  She will have bags and maps to hand out for those needing them.  All volunteers are invited to camp at Kanaskat-palmer group camp.

Why Go?

If you have to ask, here are some really good reasons:

Spend an awesome day on an awesome river.

                7 day forecast says sunny and warm for Saturday.

Free Parking at the Parks.

                Tell the ranger you are with the Green River cleanup.  Clean-up volunteers park free.

Free camping at Kanaskat-Palmer State Park group camp.

                Cleanup volunteers camp free Fri. and Sat. nights (leave it cleaner than you found it).

Above average flows Predicted Saturday.

                For the 2nd year in a row, predicted levels to be in the 1600 to 2400 cfs range! Yee-ha.

                www.facebook.com/greenrivercleanup for the latest water level predictions.

Want better reasons: ask greenrivercleanup@hotmail.com We have a big list.



Edited by JayC - 30 Apr 2012 at 10:49am
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  Quote JayC Replybullet Posted: 01 May 2012 at 8:33am

Looks like record cleanup flows for this weekend. Low 2000 cfs, a great flow, rocks start covering up, no pushy hydraulics or keeper holes. Have fun be safe and watch your downstream oar.

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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 01 May 2012 at 12:41pm
I'll only have a downstream oar if Boater Barbie shows up and runs first.

That's a joke. Gotta keep these online aliases in line, ya know.

Thanks for the updates, Jay- its quite likely I'll see you out there. Flows do look nice for the weekend!
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  Quote JayC Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2012 at 1:31pm

Flow predictions for this Saturday’s Green River Cleanup event.

Just talked to the man with his hands on the gate controls. Ken Brettman, P.E. Senior Water Manager, Western Washington Water Management Section Seattle District Army Corps of Engineers.   Paraphrased,--- Expect releases from Howard Hanson Dam This weekend to be 1600cfs; based on the most sophisticated crystal ball technology available.  Expect a range of 1400 to 1800 cfs. Chance of exceeding this range is slim.---

  For the quickest and most up to date info www.facebook.com/greenrivercleanup

Have fun out the there, be safe and d*m it, be decisive (#3).

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  Quote Mr.Grinch Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2012 at 5:15pm
Jay, I wanted to know about how the garbage is escorted from the Upper Gorge. I only have small kayaks, but I'm quite apt and willing to help with clean up. I can't personally transport much waste as my low volume boats don't have much extra room, but are we expecting numerous rafts that can carry what anyone finds that needs to be removed?

My guess is that this question should be a no brainer, but I haven't been here for a clean up before, so I wouldn't assume anything.

Thanks!
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  Quote JayC Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2012 at 6:06pm
Mr. Grinch, Thankyou so much for asking the question and welcome to the Green River Cleanup I have added your question to the FAQ on the Green River Cleanup facebook page. If there any other questions about the cleanup; please feel free to post them here or at www.facebook.com/greenrivercleanup.
 

15           I have a small Kayak and cant hall much; what can I do with the trash I find?

Kayakers can give their found trash to any rafter on the cleanup.  Sweep boats will be leaving about 1:00 pm from the headworks and will be picking up any bags or piles of trash that cannot be transported otherwise.  The goal is to haul as much trash as possible to Flaming Geyser first and Kanaskat-Palmer second.  Anything left behind will be grabbed by Sunday boaters.

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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2012 at 8:37pm
Where doeas all this garbage come from? It's ridicules! Damn fishermen!
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  Quote JayC Replybullet Posted: 02 May 2012 at 9:12pm
dave, your question is already on the FAQ list, it's # 11. However I did expand on it because of your question, thanks. please keep those questions comming.  here is the FAQ you asked. You can see the entire list by going to www.facebook.com/greenrivercleanup and clicking on "about" in the header.
 

11           After so many years of cleaning the Green River, isn’t it clean already?

Cleaner, yes.  Unfortunately, there are those out there that don’t get it and we won’t be cancelling the cleanup anytime in the predictable future due to lack of garbage.  The Green river cleanup is more than just cleaning a river every year; in fact, each year less random garbage is collected and hauled out, speaking for the success of the cleanup.  The Green River Cleanup is also about getting the word out that trashing our precious waterways is behaviors society can no longer afford to tolerate. Let those know, the ones that don’t get it, how you feel about it.

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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2012 at 12:33am
Jay, I want to personally thank you for being present on these forums. Yeah, I don't like Facebook, and won't traffic there myself.
But I appreciate your presence here for a variety of reasons:

Obviously, for actively promoting the Green River Clean up, but also because you are one of our local veteran boaters. Professor Paddle may be seen as a fairly recent edition to Washington's whitewater boating community, but ya gotta admit it is a pretty powerful tool with a lot of potential. Sure, internet forums are always a mixed bag. There may be some sh*t slinging that occurs, but there are also a lot of good exchanges of ideas. Not to mention the database of river beta, a wiki-guidebook that, while not perfect, is dynamic and fairly up to date in general. People use this resource, even if the local veteran boatmen like yourself don't need it (having practicly written the book yourselves).

Anyway, the reason I say all this is because this online community is very local and homespun. But it is largely full of relative new comers to the sport, and to Washington's rivers. This online community needs guys like you who've been, for example, boating the Green since the early 80's.
   You guys know stuff these new school kids don't. And Washington's whitewater community can benefit from your experiences and knowledge, whether they realize it or not. So thanks again for being around and being involved.

So, while you are monitoring this thread, if nothing else, let me ask you: now that Let's Make A Deal is clean again, which door would YOU choose if you were guiding a six pack in a paddle raft? I mean, I know you are primarily an oarsman, I'm just curious. Is that what your "(#3)" was in reference to?

Below 1600 I might be inclined to choose door #1, because at some point I know that slide over on R. Left starts getting scrapey at lower flows. Door #2 seems like it would be fine in the hands of a competent oarsman, being able to back away from the boulder and all, but it also looks like a good place to flip a paddle raft. Certainly at 1900 a janky line in #2 could be flirting w/ a flip.

C'mon, man, drop some Green River Gorge wisdom on me...
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2012 at 9:14am
This is no Hi-Jacking, and please Jay do respond to JP's Qs because I would like to hear too. I have never guided a raft down the green either but I have rowed it a few times so I would like to hear also.

On to my usage of this fine thread!!!

I am going to 100% be out on the Clean Up this weekend. However unlike many a year before rather than in a kayak, I will be in a raft, a much better craft for the purpose if I might add. I think most years I end up packing out maybe 2-3 cans I find besides my own ... not much help, I know. This year I am going to get that coal bucket out!!! j/k but I am going to get er done.

On to my point, I am going to take at least a couple O folks down to enjoy this event. It would be fun to link up with other paddlers for a quasi PP extension of our effort to help. Remember everyone is going to figure were slackin since we ain't packin so lets prove them wrong.

My plan is to launch at Kanaskat at around 9-10am. Gonna set shuttle down at the shangri la zone and will need a ride back up. I can pack some treats for anyone that wants to join in... HOWever the goal is not to pack goodies in as much as nasties out. So who is interested?

Oh and btw, I might have room for one more paddler in my raft, I should know this afternoon what my head count looks like. We of course are trying to plan a group PP paddle as the sweep boat for our group!


Edited by James - 03 May 2012 at 9:17am
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  Quote JayC Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2012 at 9:46am

Thank you jP and james, I am working on your response now and a dozen or so other last day chores before the cleanup. Response to come, thanks for your patience.

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  Quote JayC Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2012 at 9:50am

Two days, are you ready? Some last minute info you might not know about this year’s cleanup.

A few important things come to mind:

1.  Report of a log on the “Yo-Yo” just below its put-in: Does anybody have firsthand knowledge of this reported log?  I have sketchy reports the log is no longer a hazard, anybody?

2.  As all things evolve, so does the Green River Cleanup.  The traditional Friends of the Green fund raiser and picnic that greeted you at shelter 3 with hot hamburgers, hot dogs and cold pizza and drinks; sadly, will not be part of the 27th’s cleanup history.  However, shelter 3 @ Flaming Geyser Park is reserved for cleanup volunteers.  There will probably be hot charcoal going in the barbie so bring your own food.  Pat, president of Friends of the Green will still be there organizing ground crews from 9:00 till early afternoon, so stop in and say hi, I’m sure she will take your donation to FOG; still dedicated to protecting the Green.

3. For many years, the state of Washington department of transportation provided the Green River Cleanup with a generous supply of bags, thank you DOT.  Times change, budgets crunch; we are looking for new resources in the garbage container/transporter department.  Our bag supply this year may be limited.  So if you can, bring your own and 1 for someone else.

Remember, parking is free to cleanup volunteers.  Tell the ranger you are with the cleanup.  Camping is free to cleanup volunteers.  Fri. and Sat. nights, Kanaskat-Palmer State Park group camp area.

Pass the word

Leave a place cleaner than what you found it.

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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2012 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by JayC

dave, your question is already on the FAQ list, it's # 11. However I did expand on it because of your question, thanks. please keep those questions comming.  here is the FAQ you asked. You can see the entire list by going to www.facebook.com/greenrivercleanup and clicking on "about" in the header.
 

11           After so many years of cleaning the Green River, isn’t it clean already?

Cleaner, yes.  Unfortunately, there are those out there that don’t get it and we won’t be cancelling the cleanup anytime in the predictable future due to lack of garbage.  The Green river cleanup is more than just cleaning a river every year; in fact, each year less random garbage is collected and hauled out, speaking for the success of the cleanup.  The Green River Cleanup is also about getting the word out that trashing our precious waterways is behaviors society can no longer afford to tolerate. Let those know, the ones that don’t get it, how you feel about it.

I have been doing the cleanup since the begining....it is also a great venue for all types of boaters to join, meet each other and share a common goal. It's a great local social event and I hope it continues forever! 

Edited by dave - 03 May 2012 at 4:42pm
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  Quote JayC Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2012 at 4:45pm

Originally posted by jP

Jay, I want to personally thank you for being present on these forums. Yeah, I don't like Facebook, and won't traffic there mysellf.But I appreciate your presence here for a variety of reasons:

 

Obviously, for actively promoting the Green River Clean up, but also because you are one of our local veteran boaters. Professor Paddle may be seen as a fairly recent edition to Washington's whitewater boating community, but ya gotta admit it is a pretty powerful tool with a lot of potential. Sure, internet forums are always a mixed bag. There may be some sh*t slinging that occurs, but there are also a lot of good exchanges of ideas. Not to mention the database of river beta, a wiki-guidebook that, while not perfect, is dynamic and fairly up to date in general. People use this resource, even if the local veteran boatmen like yourself don't need it (having practicly written the book yourselves).

 

Anyway, the reason I say all this is because this online community is very local and homespun. But it is largely full of relative new comers to the sport, and to Washington's rivers. This online community needs guys like you who've been, for example, boating the Green since the early 80's.

You guys know stuff these new school kids don't. And Washington's whitewater community can benefit from your experiences and knowledge, whether they realize it or not. So thanks again for being around and being involved.

 

So, while you are monitoring this thread, if nothing else, let me ask you: now that Let's Make A Deal is clean again, which door would YOU choose if you were guiding a six pack in a paddle raft? I mean, I know you are primarily an oarsman, I'm just curious. Is that what your "(#3)" was in reference to?

 

Below 1600 I might be inclined to choose door #1, because at some point I know that slide over on R. Left starts getting scrapey at lower flows. Door #2 seems like it would be fine in the hands of a competent oarsman, being able to back away from the boulder and all, but it also looks like a good place to flip a paddle raft. Certainly at 1900 a janky line in #2 could be flirting w/ a flip.

 

C'mon, man, drop some Green River Gorge wisdom on me...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Jp, thanks so much for the acknowledgements, It’s always nice to be recognized even if it does remind me of my age ;-)> I will take the opportunity you have given me.

First let me say that I agree with you about facebook, but I will expand that to include the www in general. It has taken me a long time to warm up to the idea of the usefulness of the “Evil Web”. I found signs that I was missing out on things because I was not “connected”. I found that people quit calling me; which is my generation’s main communication method. I found they expected me to find the information they published, on the www even If you tell them you are not on line. The last straw was when I missed out on a Grand Canyon trip I had been expecting for over 10 years. Blablablabla. To end this paragraph and get on to more fun stuff, just let me say that the Green River Cleanup has joined the 21st century and it found the need for and find a central place for Official Green River Cleanup information to disseminate and to collect. Facebook I found friendly enough for a technophobe like myself and I look past its shortfalls and concentrate on the benefits, real and potential, to the Green River and its annual cleanup.

In that lite, I appreciate professor paddle as well as several other lists for the opportunities they provide for information exchange. I have become reliant on PP and other lists to get the word out about the Green River Cleanup. The Green River Cleanup would not exist without the support of the paddling community and I believe both the paddling community and the Green River Cleanup has benefited immeasurably by your existence. Thanks for being here and if you don’t mind; I will continue to use you. ;-)>

Thank you again for your question jP, and the opportunity to give my opinion. Do understand that it is my opinion and I am sure there will be those out there that might disagree. I can only tell you what decision I might make if I were a paddle captain on the Green at “Let’s Make A Deal”. First, I personally would not paddle captain the Green. I have stern framed the Green commercially during my short career as a guide and guide instructor. I limit my paddle captaining to the Skagit, the Wenatchee and only sometimes the Tieton. You are right when you say I’m an oarsman. With oars I feel in control. With a guide stick, I would be terrified on the Green, but that’s me, I have no confidence in myself to paddle captain anything but class III. Now if you still want my opinion:…… short answer Door 1 Longer answer:

As some of you know, and share, I love the Green River. I have about 250-300 runs through the gorge exclusively in row boats mostly, 99%, catboats. That translates to over 3,000 Green River miles. Flows ranging from a low of around 400 cfs rowing a “ducky class” rowboat (never again); Door 3 is a Zzzonk at levels below 1000cfs. To a high of 5700 cfs (Maybe again), kinda scary though especially “The miracle mile” (“Mercury” through “let’s make A Deal”). So the decision I would make on which door to choose would be dependent on flow.

1600 is the predicted flow for Saturday. For that flow, "plan a" would be door #1 "plan b" door #3. I think door 1 is the easiest maneuver for any craft and there is a nice boof at the bottom for your prize. Start your approach to "let's Make A Deal" left enough to avoid the guard holes and rocks on the right, get some left to right momentum at the right time to make the move and nothing but good times. Door 3 is doable at that level but the current at all medium levels tends to push you up on that rock so a draw to the left or a rock spin might be the cleanest way to run door 3. Door 2 would be tough, I think at any level for all but the most experienced paddle teams. You might end up in door 2 if door 3’s choice puts you further on that rock than you expected. Sideways on that rock could easily result in a flip. “Be decisive comes into play here in reference to the #3 above, not the door # for “Let’s make a deal’ but the rule # that I try to live by when it comes to row boats. Spoken but unpublished I have 10 rules to live by when it comes to whitewater and longevity to the sport. Mostly tailored to the oarsman but most translate to all paddle sports. The first three I find to be most important. Briefly, if your interested here are my top three rules to live by as a river boater.

1. “Always look downstream”. Ignored, this one can kill you. I have seen many close calls of people putsen around and not paying attention to their downstream progress. (Most deadly accidents occur in class II whitewater.

2. “Watch your downstream Oar” I have witnessed a lot of injuries and heard of countless more that were caused by the downstream oar.

3. “Be decisive” I have observed that it is usually okay to change your mind once after you have committed to a particular line in a particular rapid, but if you are changing your mind for a second time "Plan C"; it usually means you’re in deep sh*t. So I say be decisive; pick a line and stick with it. Plan c is usually a bad choice.

Any way I would pick door #1 as plan a. that’s at this weekend’s level. At 5,700 cfs those rocks are serious pour overs, all 3 doors are scary looking on the approach and I, at levels above 4,000cfs, usually choose the “curtain” which is all the way against the right wall and to the right of the panicle rock called “Monty Hall” or I choose “The boxes” all the way on river left if there not zonked by the often present wood.

jP, I hope this helps. Feel free to ask my opinion any time you like and thanks again for yours, PP and the boating communities support of the Cleanup I really do appreciate it.

Let’s make it another greatest river cleanup ever.

SYOTR

Jay (Be familiar with your equipment #5)



Edited by JayC - 03 May 2012 at 5:57pm
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 03 May 2012 at 6:16pm
Thanks, Jay! I appreciate the depth of your response. Just for clarification:

I should mention that my understanding of the Door numbering is that Door #1 is furthest River Right, and Door #3 is on River Left. This is correct, right? I've even heard of the high water channel that opens up along the River Left bank referred to as Door #4.

Whatever, I'll be out there- probably get to hang out with you at the group camp friday and saturday night...

I gotta say that I'll be happy with whatever flows we have, but I do hope it rains just a wee bit harder than we might think so that the Green will be at least 1900. Guess we'll find out!
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