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jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
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   Topic: Green Gorge (upper) TODAY!
Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 10:39am |
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Man I thought Y'nz was gonna rally today n now you're pulling the plug?
Dave, I know I have called you "Goofy" in the past, but I was under the impression we've made recent progress in our relationship-
don't throw it all away now!
It's 1390 as of the last guage reading. A mere 10 cfs below my personal cutoff. I think I can let it slide.
If you must back out,
Wanna meet n help me run shuttle?
Or, perhaps someone has the inside scoop on some WKC shuttle plans so I can work my "dirtbag shuttle appropriation" magic...
Anyone?
Or how bout someone speak up if they want to run the Green today?
Wait- I gotta take this call...
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kirkrorrer
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 10:47am |
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Hi JP I was the one to pull the plug on the 11:30 meet at the green due to last minute childcare responsibility. Now I see the green at 1600 and am kicking myself. I could potentially go later. How late can you go?
Kirk
425-seven six one eleven 88
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jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 10:54am |
Hey, Kirk- totally understandable circumstances. It sounds as though I may yet be pulling a crew together for a run. Some PPeeps in transit to Hoody McRio may be droppin by for a taste of the Green (river, that is  )
Can you still go after 1pm? I'll call ya in a few- it would be cool to hit the water with ya- been awhile
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jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 10:59am |
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Whoa! I looked at the wrong guage! It IS 1600! Yeah, Kirk- it is a good time to hit it up.
Where are all the garden variety boaters who run the Green? This is the time to be hittin it. I'll post the meet time as soon as I have one. Come one come all...
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dave
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 11:06am |
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One problem, the gauge is going straight up. It could be getting high quick. Im going to wait until tomorrow and see levels. I dont feel comfortable flood boating.
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jP
Rio Banditos
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 11:11am |
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Alright, fair enough, Dave- I'll give you a T.R.
I may have some PPeeps coming out of the woodwork. Otherwise I'm goin to solo it somehow. Bike shuttle or somethin
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jP
Rio Banditos
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 11:18am |
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Lookin like a 12:30 meet at Paradiso, unless Kirk wants us to bump it back to 1pm.
But you appear to be correct in your assessment, Dave: its shootin for the moon. I couldn't be happier to drive such a short distance to boat!
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dave
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 11:38am |
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It may go above 3k. Need to call the damm guys and see. It scares me that high.
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kirkrorrer
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 11:46am |
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I Still have childcare commitment , would not make it there until 1:20-1:30 most likely. Have fun, hopefully I can hit up tomorrow.
Kirk
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jP
Rio Banditos
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 11:53am |
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Fair enough. I'm happy to put on and find out that way.
Happy I don't have to drive all over Hell's Halfacre to find some decent wah. Wah.
Feelin lazy today, and been jonsing for the Green all winter. For a moment I was ready to breakdown and go run it at 950 or some other horrid low flow. Glad to stick to my guns n get some juice.
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dave
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 1:00pm |
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Looks like its stablizing around 2500. Tomorrow will be good. I should have went today...at the ceder now and the play looks good, so o well getting some anyway.
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Nomad
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jP
Rio Banditos
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 5:53pm |
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Umm umm! Nothin like some Phad Kee Mao after a very satisfying jaunt down the Green River Gorge!
So by 1:35 or whenever we put on it had to have been well over 2500- I haven't logged too many trips in there above 3000, but its safe to say we were boatin on 3000+ for most of the run. The 5pm reading was around 4100. We were off the riv by 4pm easily.
3000ish or whatever it was is a sweet flow. Just lots of good clean fun for those with a solid roll and some skill at driving a boat. Wish it flowed like that more often.
"Mercury" through "Let's Make A Deal" is definity quite the solid class IV crux. Stano Rock had about a foot of rock showing above the pillow: definitely not active at this flow, but ominous enough to take seriously and avoid.
All and all a nice class IV trip, as opposed to the psuedo-class IV nature of it at lower flows. Most of the no name rock gardens boat fine like Class III+ on steroids, but many of those non descript rock gardens have at least one or two crunchy pour overs lurking in chaotic, splashy wavetrains. It'd be easy for them to sneak up on a floater.
Just sharing for anyone who's never run it that high but is curious: its quality whitewater. Only been in there that high two other times. I'd love to catch it between 5-7k...
I suppose I'd consider it again tomorrow, especially if it was over 3k. Just puttin it out there.
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jP
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 6:02pm |
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Me and Nick lead our buddy, the "advanced novice" down. One complete PNW season under his belt (that's at least 6 or 7 months of avid boating), and he absolutely shredded it up! Sure, he capsized a few time but rolled right up.
Of course, he does have a great roll, a natural bit of athleticism, and a good head on his shoulders. And Nick and I weren't casual: we deliberately gave him good lines and good beta above all the key rapids. That makes a huge difference. We were both ready to be game-on rescue mode if he would have swam.
Way to go Mike!!
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WA-Boater
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 6:17pm |
If Jefferson is too high I will be at the Green tomorrow. JP, there's a reason it's in http://www.amazon.com/Whitewater-Classics-American-Continents-Paddlers/dp/0966491939/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1325124840&sr=8-8 .
It's an awsome run when flows are between 4-5k. A great level for solid class 4 paddlers. For the class 5 paddler, there isn't a better flooded run then the Green once it tops 6000. Things remain manageable but the whitewater is nearly non-stop for 6 mile in the upper gorge (or about 45 minutes). The scenery is also top notch.
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jP
Rio Banditos
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 6:25pm |
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Yup. Well we'll be talkin'. I got my sights on Jeffrey as well, and the Geeen would make a great back up.
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kurle
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 7:23pm |
i've got my eye on the green or jefferson as well, would love to meet up with you guys tomorrow and/or friday. 
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dave
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Posted: 28 Dec 2011 at 11:32pm |
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We actually managed to get on the section from the bridge to the end of the Kanasket park today. It is all the time we had to do it. We ran the cedar play/slolum course too. The Green was definetly towards the 4k mark when we were on it. Getting serious, I would rather run the upper in the 2-3k range for my comfort level...
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PowWrangler
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Posted: 29 Dec 2011 at 12:42am |
The highest level I've been in there at is 5,300. It's pretty manageable, but is fast and has some swirly eddies. Swimming in the heart of the gorge could be life threatening.
The crux is the Nozzle, screwing that up would deal out some pain, but it's a pretty straightforward move. Then the big hole downstream on the left (California hole?) is one to definitely avoid.
Nowadays I'm fine at 3-4k, just as much fun for me and not as consequential. Hopefully it is in that range this weekend, might have to dust the boat off and get out there.
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WA-Boater
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Posted: 29 Dec 2011 at 6:38am |
I agree that 5300 is a pretty manageable level and that a swim in the heart of the gorge could be life threatening. The rest of the run is exceptionally good with some holes to avoid, most of which are obvious from above. Just go with a good guide and catch eddies above the named rapids.
Several years back during a run at 7700 we had a scary situation. We had 6 kayakers, all good boaters, plus my brother and I were R-2 ing a small raft (a 9' Mini-Me). My brother and I were in the rear entering mercury/nozzle when the last kayaker was unable to roll between mercruy/nozzle. He ended up swimming (most of which was under water) and we, the entire group, lost sight of him. Two kayakers proceeded to sprint towards the take-out in the event he was floating downstream, while the other 3 kayakers searched each bank in case he got out and collapsed. My brother and I kept watch on the river. After 10-15 minutes his kayak floated by upside down(we were eddied by the big house over the river on river right). We got to the kayak and tried to pull it into the raft, but the next rapid was rapidly approaching. We ditched the kayak, but still ended up flipping in a big wave hole. Despite the fact we were wearing swim fins and good floatation life jackets, we proceded to swim the next .5-1 mile of river through several rapids. Since the other kayakers were gone/occupied we had no safety. When we finally got to shore in the raft (we had to reflip it quite a few times) we were spent. My brother was barfing and my lungs were burning. Gear is never worth going after in situations like that (regardless of being in a kayak or raft). Despite having 6-7 years experience I still made a big mistake in going for the kayak, and I jeopardized both my brothers and my safety. Don't seperate yourself from the group and don't unnecessarily risk anything to save some gear on a fllod-like river. Use good judgement.
Turns out the kayaker was able to get to shore on the river left bank pretty quick. Rather then making contact with anybody in the group, he decided to just hike-out. In the mean time, the entire group was operating as if he flush drowned or was unconscious on the bank somewhere. The two kayakers that sprinted downriver took out at Paradise and decided to immediately go to the put-in and do a 'sweep lap', despite there being very little light left. As the two went through the nozzle in near dark conditions, one paddler swam in a large pour-over just below the nozzle on the right (usually a big boulder to the right of the surf wave). The other paddler saw the working in the hole, but never saw the swimmer. Overwhelmed, and with no light, he paddled off. When my brother and I made it to Paradise (funny name on a day like that) the first swimmer was standing in the parking lot with my wife. I was confused, then once I found out I was pissed. Nearly and hour later, just before dark, the group of 3 that was searching the banks showed up. They were releived to see the initial swimmer was okay, but also pissed. My wife told me that the two 'sprinters' went back up and put on. I knew they would be hard pressed to make it off before dark. About 30min after dark one paddler walked up in tears. He thought he lost two friends. After some discussion, we felt pretty helpless for the last guy who had swam.
Luckily, swimmer #2 was also able to make it out of the river after a bit of a swim, but had some difficulty getting up the river right bank in the gorge. Pretty crazy trip. If you swim, be sure to make contact with your group! It seems like a no brainer, but apparently not. Be careful of group size of a river at high water. Even though it feels safer with some numbers, 3-5 would probably be the max effective size. If things do go wrong, exercise good judgement, even if you think something real bad has/is going on. I failed to do so, and jeopardized my brothers safety, let alone mine. The 2nd run wasn't a bad idea, however, especially with no light window, use good judgement and take conservative lines. And finally, if you are not feeling up for the run, like the first swimmer was, don't put on. It's not worth it. Despite being a solid boater, he hadn't been in his boat for a while and was feeling rusty.
Having said all that, the Green is a great run. I've gone back many times since and will keep going back. Make sure you know the lines if it's above 5k or go with someone who does. Don't have a weak roll or be out of shape (physically, mentally or just being rusty) - it's not the run to be on. Every 1000cfs above 5k is like 10,000cfs on the sky. It get progressively harder every 1000.
Be safe.
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BIGWATER
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Posted: 29 Dec 2011 at 8:49am |
i was on the river that day with another group and saw you guys come through the nozzel... i remeber seeing that lil raft and thinken wow thoes guys r hard core .....we were portageing on river right , wich is what i always do on the nozzel (if you can still call it that , should be called river wide hole of death at thoes flows)... we usealy eddy out left above mercury just after the island and then ferry over to the right and catch the big eddy that forms above the nozzel, then its a easy hop out of the boats and around the hole of death ..... ever since i saw someone get beat down in that hole i always carry around it now, even if you are on line its so random in there its easy to get sucked back into it
i didnt realize you guys had 2 swimmers that day thought it was only one , glad it all worked out
the Green realy is world class whilewater at the higher flows , and yes you need to be on your game for it , i havent run it over 5k in a few years ... haveing been on the river the day Darren is talken about and the day that Stano died kinda put a damper on it for me, even tho i was with other groups that had clean runs
i realy should nut up and get back on it at high flows, its one of the best runs in WA when its high
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AMcEwan
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Posted: 29 Dec 2011 at 9:16am |
Anyone in for the green today? I can't make it to Jefferson.
The level looks promising.
-Andrew
4152906860
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dave
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Posted: 29 Dec 2011 at 9:41am |
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I actually prefer 2500-3000. I think that is the fun level, its big but not super deadly.
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Nomad
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jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
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Posted: 29 Dec 2011 at 7:04pm |
Originally posted by dave
We ran the cedar play/slolum course too.
Slolum, Dave?
Slolum?
Rhymes with "Gollum"
Really? Have you no respect?
This ain't the "Lord of the Rings", Man
[LOL]
Just kiddin- I agree: I really dig the 2-3,000 range.
Haven't gotten on it at 4,000 and above yet- almost regret rallying the Jeferson action today, but it was cool. I had a good time.
Yeah, Darren's story PISSES ME OFF, and I wasn't even there! The thing is, I've had at least 5 similar episodes like that over the years.
Its one of the reasons I get so PPreachy 'round here- too many river trips with new batches of boaters who pull that kind of sh*t.
Ya gotta stick to your group. Keep it together. That's why it is important to have eyes in the back of your head. To be aware.
That's why every boat needs to adapt to the prevailing speed of a group: lead boaters need to be tuned in to the lag time of the nervous boaters who tend to drift to the back of the trip. Those trailing boaters in the rear also need to keep up. It is a mutual effort.
But NEVER EVER just up 'n hike out without alerting at least one member of the group. That's why regrouping below drops and rapids is important. Being systematic about it instead of being "on your own trip" Line of sight with as many members of the group as the riverscape allows at any given point. The thing is, if you practice this, it becomes second nature. Yet over half of all WW boaters never seem to cultivate it.
I'm turning into a "crumudgeon" just as she accused me of, but after years of this kind of sh*t. I've come to resent being dragged through people's learning curves while they figure it out the "re-invent the wheel way" instead of tapping into the experience of the people who have been doing this stuff and taking their lead. (I'm not really as pissed as I sound, just illustrating the point.)
All that said, if you push gently on the highwater envelope and use it to broaden your skills, you stand to gain a lot.
High Water boating demands more from a paddler. You can no longer just drift n float and scrape over rocks. You have to decisively [I]Drive[/I] your boat.
I'm tellin' ya: it all comes back to a simple forward stroke in flatwater.
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jP
Rio Banditos
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Posted: 29 Dec 2011 at 7:08pm |
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~sigh~
That was a nice "jP Classic" rant. I feel good now. And now I leave this Green River at High Water Thread (regretfully) to focus on the Olympic Penninsula for the weekend...
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JoesKayak
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Posted: 29 Dec 2011 at 7:18pm |
Originally posted by jP
Originally posted by dave
We ran the cedar play/slolum course too.
Slolum, Dave?
Slolum?
Rhymes with "Gollum"
Really? Have you no respect?
This ain't the "Lord of the Rings", Man
Just kiddin- I agree: I really dig the 2-3,000 range.
Haven't gotten on it at 4,000 and above yet- almost regret rallying the Jeferson action today, but it was cool. I had a good time.
Yeah, Darren's story PISSES ME OFF, and I wasn't even there! The thing is, I've had at least 5 similar episodes like that over the years.
Its one of the reasons I get so PPreachy 'round here- too many river trips with new batches of boaters who pull that kind of sh*t.
Ya gotta stick to your group. Keep it together. That's why it is important to have eyes in the back of your head. To be aware.
That's why every boat needs to adapt to the prevailing speed of a group: lead boaters need to be tuned in to the lag time of the nervous boaters who tend to drift to the back of the trip. Those trailing boaters in the rear also need to keep up. It is a mutual effort.
But NEVER EVER just up 'n hike out without alerting at least one member of the group. That's why regrouping below drops and rapids is important. Being systematic about it instead of being "on your own trip" Line of sight with as many members of the group as the riverscape allows at any given point. The thing is, if you practice this, it becomes second nature. Yet over half of all WW boaters never seem to cultivate it.
I'm turning into a "crumudgeon" just as she accused me of, but after years of this kind of sh*t. I've come to resent being dragged through people's learning curves while they figure it out the "re-invent the wheel way" instead of tapping into the experience of the people who have been doing this stuff and taking their lead. (I'm not really as pissed as I sound, just illustrating the point.)
All that said, if you push gently on the highwater envelope and use it to broaden your skills, you stand to gain a lot.
High Water boating demands more from a paddler. You can no longer just drift n float and scrape over rocks. You have to decisively Drive your boat.
I'm tellin' ya: it all comes back to a simple forward stroke in flatwater.
Yeah! And quit re-naming rapids!!! Odds are someone already named it... quite likely before you were even born! Damn whippersnapper boaters.
Edited by JoesKayak - 29 Dec 2011 at 7:25pm
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