Jay, I want to personally thank you for being present on these forums. Yeah, I don't like Facebook, and won't traffic there mysellf.But I appreciate your presence here for a variety of reasons:

Obviously, for actively promoting the Green River Clean up, but also because you are one of our local veteran boaters. Professor Paddle may be seen as a fairly recent edition to Washington's whitewater boating community, but ya gotta admit it is a pretty powerful tool with a lot of potential. Sure, internet forums are always a mixed bag. There may be some sh*t slinging that occurs, but there are also a lot of good exchanges of ideas. Not to mention the database of river beta, a wiki-guidebook that, while not perfect, is dynamic and fairly up to date in general. People use this resource, even if the local veteran boatmen like yourself don't need it (having practicly written the book yourselves).

Anyway, the reason I say all this is because this online community is very local and homespun. But it is largely full of relative new comers to the sport, and to Washington's rivers. This online community needs guys like you who've been, for example, boating the Green since the early 80's.

You guys know stuff these new school kids don't. And Washington's whitewater community can benefit from your experiences and knowledge, whether they realize it or not. So thanks again for being around and being involved.

So, while you are monitoring this thread, if nothing else, let me ask you: now that Let's Make A Deal is clean again, which door would YOU choose if you were guiding a six pack in a paddle raft? I mean, I know you are primarily an oarsman, I'm just curious. Is that what your "(#3)" was in reference to?

Below 1600 I might be inclined to choose door #1, because at some point I know that slide over on R. Left starts getting scrapey at lower flows. Door #2 seems like it would be fine in the hands of a competent oarsman, being able to back away from the boulder and all, but it also looks like a good place to flip a paddle raft. Certainly at 1900 a janky line in #2 could be flirting w/ a flip.

C'mon, man, drop some Green River Gorge wisdom on me...

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Jp, thanks so much for the acknowledgements, It’s always nice to be recognized even if it does remind me of my age ;-)> I will take the opportunity you have given me.

First let me say that I agree with you about facebook, but I will expand that to include the www in general. It has taken me a long time to warm up to the idea of the usefulness of the “Evil Web”. I found signs that I was missing out on things because I was not “connected”. I found that people quit calling me; which is my generation’s main communication method. I found they expected me to find the information they published, on the www even If you tell them you are not on line. The last straw was when I missed out on a Grand Canyon trip I had been expecting for over 10 years. Blablablabla. To end this paragraph and get on to more fun stuff, just let me say that the Green River Cleanup has joined the 21^st century and it found the need for and find a central place for Official Green River Cleanup information to disseminate and to collect. Facebook I found friendly enough for a technophobe like myself and I look past its shortfalls and concentrate on the benefits, real and potential, to the Green River and its annual cleanup.

In that lite, I appreciate professor paddle as well as several other lists for the opportunities they provide for information exchange. I have become reliant on PP and other lists to get the word out about the Green River Cleanup. The Green River Cleanup would not exist without the support of the paddling community and I believe both the paddling community and the Green River Cleanup has benefited immeasurably by your existence. Thanks for being here and if you don’t mind; I will continue to use you. ;-)>

Thank you again for your question jP, and the opportunity to give my opinion. Do understand that it is my opinion and I am sure there will be those out there that might disagree. I can only tell you what decision I might make if I were a paddle captain on the Green at “Let’s Make A Deal”. First, I personally would not paddle captain the Green. I have stern framed the Green commercially during my short career as a guide and guide instructor. I limit my paddle captaining to the Skagit, the Wenatchee and only sometimes the Tieton. You are right when you say I’m an oarsman. With oars I feel in control. With a guide stick, I would be terrified on the Green, but that’s me, I have no confidence in myself to paddle captain anything but class III. Now if you still want my opinion:…… short answer Door 1 Longer answer:

As some of you know, and share, I love the Green River. I have about 250-300 runs through the gorge exclusively in row boats mostly, 99%, catboats. That translates to over 3,000 Green River miles. Flows ranging from a low of around 400 cfs rowing a “ducky class” rowboat (never again); Door 3 is a Zzzonk at levels below 1000cfs. To a high of 5700 cfs (Maybe again), kinda scary though especially “The miracle mile” (“Mercury” through “let’s make A Deal”). So the decision I would make on which door to choose would be dependent on flow.

1600 is the predicted flow for Saturday. For that flow, "plan a" would be door #1 "plan b" door #3. I think door 1 is the easiest maneuver for any craft and there is a nice boof at the bottom for your prize. Start your approach to "let's Make A Deal" left enough to avoid the guard holes and rocks on the right, get some left to right momentum at the right time to make the move and nothing but good times. Door 3 is doable at that level but the current at all medium levels tends to push you up on that rock so a draw to the left or a rock spin might be the cleanest way to run door 3. Door 2 would be tough, I think at any level for all but the most experienced paddle teams. You might end up in door 2 if door 3’s choice puts you further on that rock than you expected. Sideways on that rock could easily result in a flip. “Be decisive comes into play here in reference to the #3 above, not the door # for “Let’s make a deal’ but the rule # that I try to live by when it comes to row boats. Spoken but unpublished I have 10 rules to live by when it comes to whitewater and longevity to the sport. Mostly tailored to the oarsman but most translate to all paddle sports. The first three I find to be most important. Briefly, if your interested here are my top three rules to live by as a river boater.

1. “Always look downstream”. Ignored, this one can kill you. I have seen many close calls of people putsen around and not paying attention to their downstream progress. (Most deadly accidents occur in class II whitewater.

2. “Watch your downstream Oar” I have witnessed a lot of injuries and heard of countless more that were caused by the downstream oar.

3. “Be decisive” I have observed that it is usually okay to change your mind once after you have committed to a particular line in a particular rapid, but if you are changing your mind for a second time "Plan C"; it usually means you’re in deep sh*t. So I say be decisive; pick a line and stick with it. Plan c is usually a bad choice.

Any way I would pick door #1 as plan a. that’s at this weekend’s level. At 5,700 cfs those rocks are serious pour overs, all 3 doors are scary looking on the approach and I, at levels above 4,000cfs, usually choose the “curtain” which is all the way against the right wall and to the right of the panicle rock called “Monty Hall” or I choose “The boxes” all the way on river left if there not zonked by the often present wood.

jP, I hope this helps. Feel free to ask my opinion any time you like and thanks again for yours, PP and the boating communities support of the Cleanup I really do appreciate it.

Let’s make it another greatest river cleanup ever.

SYOTR

Jay (Be familiar with your equipment #5)